The ineffectiveness of Ron Paul

Prove it...troll...er...dujac.

 

look what this country uses as legal tender

read nearly 200 years of court tests and acknowledge that president george washington signed the legislation into law, which chartered this country's first central bank

additionally, contrary to what hoytmonger wrote, i feel like the constitution is an incredibly insightful document that bears no relationship to propaganda or misinformation

 

Ahhhh.....yeaaaah.

Now how about answering the question I asked you instead of one you twisted it into?

Oh yes....I forgot that about you.

You only see what you want to see in these forums (or so it seems).

Sad.

I bet you actually have not a clue what my question was asking?


Have a nice day.

 

you must be projecting

the supreme court agrees with my points

the reality of what this country uses as currency reflects my assertion

several of the most well known founding fathers were instrumental in the issuance of paper currency

literally nowhere does the constitution say that "only gold and silver can be legal tender"

 

To hell with the Supreme Court. Your logic is that the Supreme Court is somehow this incorruptable branch of government that always rules on the side of the Constitution, consistent with the intentions of the lawmakers at the time the laws were written. This couldn't be further from the truth, and any attempt to justify it as that is simply delusional.

Article 1, Section 10

"No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts"

And the federal government was never given the power to declare anything to be legal tender. You lose.

 

section 10 enumerates the powers prohibited of the individual states

article 1, section 8 gives congress the power to regulate the value of money and make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution that power

no it's not, but supreme court justices certainly trump under-educated imbeciles that rely on misinformation and propaganda from charlatans like g edward griffin

 

Please don't associate anyone in a forum that is a supporter of Paul with every other supporter.

I agree, we need to be "better" and not resort to name-calling and insults and act civil. I have been making this case very strongly within the grassroots movement.

http://www.dailypaul.com/215081/i-attended-a-gop-meeting-last-night-this-is-what-was-said

With that said, the Paul supporter you are criticizing is involved in a conversation with an equally, if not more, insulting Paul detractor. If you follow my conversation with this Paul opponent, you will see I have treated him with much more respect than he has treated me.

When you group people together and label them (and prejudge them) you make it hard to have a dialogue. Treat people as individuals, give them the respect they deserve (or don't deserve). You are correct, I'd follow your advice...

 

you might as well tell a zebra he needs to change his stripes, it's not going to happen in this life time

 

The States violate the Constitution by accepting any thing other than Gold or Silver as Tender and Payment of Debts.

A Federal Reserve Note is a thing other than Gold or Silver.

Congress has the power:

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."

States may not:

"make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts"

Thus, it is Congress' responsibility to coin tender for the use of the States, which can only accept Gold and Silver. Congress shall mint the coins, regulate the value (example: $20= 1 ounce of Gold), and fix the Standard Weights and Measures (example: $1 = 371 grains of Silver).

The States are prohibited from accepting anything other than Gold and Silver or a certificate backed by said metal coins.

The Federal Reserve note is not backed, or redeemable, by Gold or Silver.

Perhaps we need to amend Section 9 to specifically prohibit Congress from issuing a currency that conflicts with the State's limitations as instructed by the Constitution.

"Congress shall only coin Money that the States can legally accept."

 

that's not what it says or means

 

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec10.html

"No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..."

That is what it says.

What do you suggest it means?

 

it says what it says and it means that states have to defer to congress' authority for what's legal tender

section 8 obviously gives congress authority over the nation's money

 

It means what it says, that the States cannot make anything other than Gold and Silver tender for the payment of debts.

Section 8 gives Congress the power to coin money (mint) and determine value (dollar association) and standards of weights.

 

that's why states haven't been able to say what's legal tender, but it doesn't prevent congress from legislating what is legal tender

Clause 1: Contracts Clause

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

States may not exercise certain powers reserved for the federal government: they may not enter into treaties, alliances or confederations, grant letters of marque or reprisal, coin money or issue bills of credit (such as currency). Furthermore, no state may make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts, which expressly forbids any state government (but not the federal government) from "making a tender" (i.e., authorizing something that may be offered in payment) of any type or form of money to meet any financial obligation, unless that form of money is coins made of gold or silver (or a medium of exchange backed by and redeemable in gold or silver coins, as noted in Farmers & Merchants Bank v. Federal Reserve Bank). Much of this clause is devoted to preventing the States from using or creating any currency other than that created by Congress. In Federalist no. 44, Madison explains that "... it may be observed that the same reasons which shew the necessity of denying to the States the power of regulating coin, prove with equal force that they ought not to be at liberty to substitute a paper medium in the place of coin. Had every State a right to regulate the value of its coin, there might be as many different currencies as States; and thus the intercourse among them would be impeded." Moreover, the states may not pass bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, impair the obligation of contracts or grant titles of nobility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_10:_Limits_on_the_States

coining money is analogous to printing money and congress has used its constitutionally given power to declare federal reserve notes as legal tender

In 1871, when deciding Knox v. Lee, the Supreme Court ruled that this clause permitted Congress to emit bills and make them legal tender in satisfaction of debts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Enumerated_powers

 

the fed is still a bank with too much authority.

 

What on Earth are you yakking about?

My question had NOTHING to do with that.

I was right - you did not Understand the question.

PLease let me know when you figure it out.


Have a nice day.

 

you've already demonstrated that you're vulnerable to falling for propaganda and misinformation

the fed only has the authority given it by congress, which oversees its operation

i'm addressing the ineffectiveness of ron paul, try to keep up

 

You have yet to make a logical case for your statements.

 

that's funny coming from someone that said section 10 means that only gold and silver are legal tender

 

That's what it says and you have provided no logical explanation of why it's not.

 

The Fed is not the problem.
The lack of education about usury is.

The Fed is supposed to maintain a steady as possible gradual rise in the inflation of currency such that everything doubles in cost every ten years.

If people understood this theycould make better informed decisions and realize that certain consequences will need be faced.

When money is every 10 years, the interest paid on all debts must be 7% or one's savings are being eroded.

This controlled inflation stabilizes buiness in general, assuringthat today's business investments will show at least a 7% profit in the future.


If we were more cognizant of this, we coulkd see that the Federal Budgets were tied to the expectations in the taxes to be collected, which woukd also double every ten years.

The Bush Tax Base of 1998 doubled by 2008 to $2Trillion.

So Obama's 2012 budget is in target at $4 Trillion.


But the ecomony has lagged and Obama will need to borrow $1.3 Trillion.
"Its the economy, stupid."

 

section 10 enumerates what states can't do, not what congress can do and i've provided numerous credible sources supporting my assertion, you're just too indoctrinated by propaganda and misinformation to admit it you've been bamboozled

there's nothing in the constitution that prohibits congress from making paper money legal tender


No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

States may not exercise certain powers reserved for the federal government: they may not enter into treaties, alliances or confederations, grant letters of marque or reprisal, coin money or issue bills of credit (such as currency). Furthermore, no state may make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts, which expressly forbids any state government, but not the federal government from making a tender of any type or form of money to meet any financial obligation, unless that form of money is coins made of gold or silver. Much of this clause is devoted to preventing the States from using or creating any currency other than that created by Congress. In Federalist no. 44, Madison explains that "... it may be observed that the same reasons which shew the necessity of denying to the States the power of regulating coin, prove with equal force that they ought not to be at liberty to substitute a paper medium in the place of coin. Had every State a right to regulate the value of its coin, there might be as many different currencies as States; and thus the intercourse among them would be impeded."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_10:_Limits_on_the_States

 

Congress isn't allowed to do what it isn't prohibited from doing, it's only allowed to do what it is listed in its enumerated powers. And it's not allowed to do what it is explicitly forbidden from doing. Ever read the 10th amendment? Nowhere does it say Congress has the power to declare legal tender...only the states can do that. And the states aren't allowed to declare anything but gold and silver to be legal tender.

Only gold and silver can be declared legal tender. Anything else is unconstitutional.

 

Well done, imo.


'Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.'

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am10.html


'Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 10 - Powers Prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.'


http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec10.html

 

Thanks for posting that. I just always assumed that the Constitution was crystal clear that the only thing that can be declared legal tender is gold and silver, by the states. Any logical person reading the Constitution would conclude the same thing. I guess the founders never realized that people would be so stupid as to misinterpret it - or to be stupid enough to allow judges to be nominated/elected who would misinterpret it that way.