the minimum wage: reality check

RECORD PROFITS. RECORD, I tell you. You know, like all those coal companies Hillary and Barack put out of business.

Workers are paid what the company needs to pay them to attract them to the job, combined with the number that the company can afford to pay, make a profit and stay in business. What that number is has nothing to do with what the employee needs to live on. If the employee can't make the living he/she wants on the amount offered, he/she can refuse to take the job and go elsewhere. If the employer can't find enough employees to do the work at the wage offered, he will have to raise the pay ( a condition that occurs in a good economy, not the crappy one Obama has inflicted on us - along with his importation of millions of illegal aliens who add to the supply of labor and suppress wages).

 

Tell me, when does the government plan on outlawing low skilled jobs? Anytime soon?

 

Again, profits have nothing to do with labor costs!! Should we require profitable companies to pay more for electricity?

 

You ask a good question in asking why people can't seem to figure it out, but you also answered it. What we know is one thing; what we believe is another. If you believe it's not possible for you, then it isn't. Self-fulfilling prophecy. If it's not possible, why try? If it isn't easy, why try? These are mindset questions- not economic facts. They are even more absolute than economic facts, as they preclude any possibility. And, it is virtually impossible to convince such a person that they could change those things.

There are janitors that have become millionaires, by using sound financial judgement. There are people who have blown large fortunes that fell into their hands by failing to. I know examples of both, one a relative that will eventually run out of money and probably wind up homeless.

Why do so many jobs ask for a college diploma? There are three reasons I can think of offhand.

First, many young people with high school diplomas today have the equivalent of what used to be 5th grade skills, and aren't interested in learning more. By requiring college, you sort out many of those upfront.

Secondly, technology and innovation changes have eliminated many jobs with skills that can be easily taught on the job. Thus, the more technical jobs are increasing, the strictly basic jobs are decreasing.

Third- the fundamental skills for any job are much more likely to be present in someone who spent the energy to go beyond high school. Regardless of your skill, an employer needs reliability, honesty and some character qualities that show you have some motivation and discipline.

Fact is, that even for beginner jobs, the applicant who can indicate that he has those characteristics moves to the top of the list for that reason alone. Having hired people over so long a period of time, the sheer lack of ambition I see is depressing, and gives me grave concern for the future.

Everything we accomplish starts with people. People with ideas, ambition, drive, and the ability to work in a team situation. We need to hire those people- and they are becoming hard to find. Nobody wants to hire trouble, and by that I mean someone who thinks the business is there to serve him. I have been an employee, as most all businessmen have. However, most employees have not been employers- so the employers have experienced both sides of the equation, while the vast majority of employees have not. Still, like armchair quarterbacks they think they know enough about business to tell the employer how to run his business. Nobody wants to buy that kind of attitude, and it's increasing

I've been told many times that something I had already done was impossible. And it was- for those who thought so. We are our own worst enemy. The most important and valuable job skill you can have is learning how to think, how to discipline your own mind to see opportunity and make the right decisions consistently. I did not say this was easy- but the hard part isn't what you think. The hard part is getting rid of the trash that society has dumped on us, all the hogwash that buries the real jewels of truth in our minds. That is difficult for anyone to do, and impossible for many. You have to believe in yourself, and you have to believe you will succeed. Then- you probably will.

Like most other aspects of this, you can tell people how to do it, and they will tell you that you are wrong, and don't know what you are talking about. So much for the hand-up; many are far too smart to learn more.

There are certain bits of philosophy, quotes, that I just love. One is from Charles Kettering, a prolific inventor and engineer. "Knowledge and understanding are not the same thing. You can know a great deal, and understand nothing." And so, we have college grads who have read the books and have the diplomas to prove it.... but have mastered no skills at all. In the end, it what you can accomplish that makes you valuable, and controls what you are worth.

 

What do you think a price floor on wages does? Do you think that unskilled workers will magically produce enough to make them worth hiring at the wage you deem the minimum in order to be moral?

 

I see that taxpayers are subsidizing the crap wages that companies are paying through food stamps and other hand outs. The question is why don't you?

 

Absolutely. The market will sustain the increase in wages.

 

Morals have no place in business. Business owners are in it to make profit not to provide a living for someone else. Again no one owes you a job that pays you enough to live on.

 

What about young people in their teens and disabled people two groups hard to find jobs for and I know I'm was born into the latter group, you make the minimum wage $15 and the person say has limited ability to learn or do things they will never be hired. Sure the ones who can go on to school and get a degree likely are far more employable but for someone who could only get a High School Diploma your killing employment chances. That will make SSI and SSDI the fallback for anyone born with a disability as their support for life with all the other benefit programs. And "special shops" where its legal to pay the disabled less is not likely to stay legal much longer its losing support and it didn't fix anything save people get paid crap for dead end jobs and still get tons of government support other than disabled people get some kind of work earning pocket money.

And teens, who would hire a kid in High School in summer jobs when college students or graduates and willing older workers will do the same work?

 

How about an argument with some merit?

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Rightwing fascism that is what that is.
What happened to you cons?

 

I they want me to work, they should. That is one problem with our economy. Our social safety nets do not simply reserve labor at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines.

 

Good points. As for the young, we have put a legal issue in the way. People just coming to working age don't know how to work anymore- various laws and legal liabilities have prevented them from gaining experience, and the ability to work (not the trade skill, but the ability to be there and be effective) isn't there. If you grew up on a farm, you learned to work early, Not abusively- but as part of the family effort. My wife was picking cotton at 8 years of age on her family farm. I was working in a small family store at 10. Today, those things don't happen, and many young are shocked at what working for a living means. We were ready to go to work when we left home; most today are not. That alone makes them less employable.

As for the disabled or handicapped, you have a special exception and most people understand it. Years back, people helped their neighbors in times of need, they cared for those who were unable to care for themselves, or adjusted things to fit the limits that disability imposed. Actually, such people are often the most loyal and reliable workers, so long as the job is suited to them. This is not a hand-out, it is a hand-up, and most of us respect that. However, it is still true that a wage is a price paid for something of value- productivity. When a wage is set above productivity, it is a subsidy, a welfare or charity type of thing. Many handicapped people are highly productive, but not all can be. I've never met anyone who thinks we should not step in and support those people. While I agree that this is a situation calling for substantial improvement, I have little confidence in government's ability to do that. They have never been able to distinguish the difference between true need and the career welfare people.

As for the value of a degree- it is perhaps less than you think. True, many jobs won't even interview a person without a diploma. In some jobs, it's a must due to the nature of the work. But in many cases, the employers are trying to raise the bar. I have no diploma. I'm self-taught. One of my clients when I was doing management consulting was Boeing. There have been doctors, engineers and all kind of professional people hire me to teach them how to do what I could do- and my credentials were nothing more than my own accomplishments. What you can do determines your real value. The degree certainly helps open doors, but if you can't deliver, they will fire you just as quick. I once had a PhD working as a warehouse janitor, because he didn't want to do anything more. We make ourselves what we are- and while that isn't reliably easy, it is true. And, we need to learn to adapt our strategy to the state of the world, rather than expect the world to adjust to us. Change is the only permanent state.

 

Same place that the funds that allow CEOs to have contingency funds in the tens of millions come from.

The workers.

All of the value produced ultimately comes from the workers who make the equipment and facilities that the employer owns run. Raising the minimum wage is merely increasing the fraction of what they produce that they get to keep.

I really don't give a damn about the trust fund babies that will sit there whining about how unfair it is that they might have to lose a portion of the millions that guaranteed them a life free of work so that their employees can survive.

 

So you believe that an increase in minimum wage will automatically result in increased productivity?

If somebody just offered you more money for no reason, you really think that would drive you to be more efficient.

 

Maybe if you reduced your expenses or had the common sense to know you can't support a family on minimum wage. Duh!

So if someone does have a skill worth paying $15 for, what do we do about their wages? Do you think they should get paid minimum wage for a skill that is worth more than minimum wage or do you think they should get paid the same as someone who only has basic skills?

 

3 Simples rules to not be poor.

1) Finish high school.
2) Work 40hrs a week.
3) Wait till 21 to have kids and THEN have kids.

98% of people who have done this are not poor. 75% make $50k a year.

 

Morals do have a place in business since this is what makes a society healthy. Please educate yourself on how society works so that their population can earn a living that supports their survival. Business owners that moved their business out of the country are currently enjoying massive profits while still living here. They can't be that blind to the damage they have caused to all those American workers that leaving destroyed their livelihood.

 

Link please

 

Oh sure.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba428

 

Dictating wages is always has a negative impact on market activity. It also reduces wage competition and puts the lowest on the rung out of work. No matter how hard the left defends dictatorial market intrusion, it is still bad for people.

In 2014, the CBO examined the impact of raising the federal minimum wage to $9.00 or $10.10 per hour, two of the most popular proposals at the time. For the $10.10 proposal, the CBO found that the policy would result in employment falling by 500,000 jobs relative to their projected 2016 baseline.

 

Ya know what your right wing "think tank" didn't mention?

There's a WHOLE lot of people who DID complete high school but are still poor. In fact 10 % of high school grads are poor...as well as more than 3% of college grads.

Clearly something else is at play here.

And working 40 hours is not something that people typically avoid. In fact most poor people who don't work full time are not doing so by choice.

And being a single parent is not usually a choice but rather something forced on women by anti-abortion conservatives (like yourself I assume)

 

Yes, there are still lazy people out there that would rather collect welfare like a friend of mine did in the 80's. He did very well in school but decided to collect instead of work.

 

Following the other 2 rules too? Cant do just one thing.

 

Yea in your fevered right wing imagination.

I'm not surprised that you have friends like that.(if that's true)

I don't

 

So facts are now right wing. I think everyone knows that.