The myth that pro-life views oppress 'women'

I think that was chuz-life-for-the-fetus-the-woman's-life-is-immaterial.

 

That's it ....."Chuz Life".....

would go on endlessly about the UVVA and even claimed that the law "proved" that either abortion should be illegal or maybe even that it WAS illegal because the US Supreme Court hadn't overturned the UVVA. (I think the latter....he actually claimed that the fact the UVVA was still law "proved" that it was "Constitutional now to ban abortion").

And apparently he had spent most of his pre-Political Forum blogging on "pro-life" or Rightwing websites and had never been challenged before....because he soon got frustrated and left because his two or three talking points got refuted very fast...and he had nothing left.

So I suppose we should compliment those who ...the same thing has happened to....who stick around.

 

It absolutely does. Your denial in the face of obvious proof is laughable. In order for you to be right, a child would have to be considered as something other than a person or human being.

 

suffice to say that you don't have a clue, intent is not required in order for a person to defend themselves against injury .. The law recognizes that both involuntary and voluntary acts can cause harm and injury to other people and that involuntary characteristic of an action does not give its perpetrator any right to inflict harm or injury. As the Model Penal Code notes, "People whose involuntary movements threaten harm to others may present a public health or safety problem." - Source : Model Penal Code - Page 197

Secondly regardless of the risk taken, it is only a risk, and people are not expected to suffer prolonged injury from a risk taken, by your logic if you injury yourself playing a dangerous sport you should not expect any medical treatment, after all you knew the risks.

Abortion is self-defence against non-consented injury.

 

Well in order to discuss it as a right, you are clearly talking about intent. Pro abortion types are so irrational. Abortion is not medical care. Medical care is designed to improve health or save a life, abortion is hit by a guy who happens to be a doctor.

 

Whaler? Still curious....

IF abortion were illegal, would you want it punished a homicide? Yes or No?

 

Absolutely YES!

Not sure, but he was dead on right!

 

It doesn't really matter if a fetus were declared a person tomorrow, it would in fact strengthen the legality of abortion with no restrictions ergo abortion for any reason, at any time and the state having to pay for it. Be careful what you wish for.

now I'll expect the usual pointless replies from you as that is all you have.

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Nope he wasn't, his arguments were blown apart .. hence why he left.

 

You are clearly the clueless one here. Merely existing is not intentionally harming others. Deal with it. A perpetrator is one who forms intent, look up mens rea. There is no prolonged injury, 9 months tops. You are flailing wildly.

 

I already told you, the harm doesn't have to be intentional, it still can be stopped.

There is permanent damage done to a woman's body due to pregnancy.

If you disagree please DO show proof.


And please tell me what abuse you'd take from someone for 9 months?



Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:
•exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
•altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
•nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
•heartburn and indigestion
•constipation
•weight gain
•dizziness and light-headedness
•bloating, swelling, fluid retention
•hemmorhoids
•abdominal cramps
•yeast infections
•congested, bloody nose
•acne and mild skin disorders
•skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
•mild to severe backache and strain
•increased headaches
•difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
•increased urination and incontinence
•bleeding gums
•pica
•breast pain and discharge
•swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
•difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
•inability to take regular medications
•shortness of breath
•higher blood pressure
•hair loss or increased facial/body hair
•tendency to anemia
•curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
•infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
•extreme pain on delivery
•hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
•continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:
•stretch marks (worse in younger women)
•loose skin
•permanent weight gain or redistribution
•abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
•pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
•changes to breasts
•increased foot size
•varicose veins
•scarring from episiotomy or c-section
•other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
•increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
•loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
•higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
•newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:
•complications of episiotomy
•spousal/partner abuse
•hyperemesis gravidarum
•temporary and permanent injury to back
•severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
•dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
•pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
•eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
•gestational diabetes
•placenta previa
•anemia (which can be life-threatening)
•thrombocytopenic purpura
•severe cramping
•embolism (blood clots)
•medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
•diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
•mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
•serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
•hormonal imbalance
•ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
•broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
•hemorrhage and
•numerous other complications of delivery
•refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
•aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
•severe post-partum depression and psychosis
•research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
•research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
•research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:
•peripartum cardiomyopathy
•cardiopulmonary arrest
•magnesium toxicity
•severe hypoxemia/acidosis
•massive embolism
•increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
•molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
•malignant arrhythmia
•circulatory collapse
•placental abruption
•obstetric fistula
More permanent side effects:
•future infertility
•permanent disability
•death.

 

The Komen foundation says that a pregnancy before the age of 35 significantly lowers a woman's risk of breast cancer, but these things are irrelevant. Does a woman taking a known risk and not liking the consequences justify her committing a homicide against a helpless child in utero. That is the only question here.

 

So if a woman self-induced an abortion at 3 weeks with RU-486.....in a state where capital punishment was enforced?

You'd want her EXECUTED, right?

 

A fetus does not "merely exist" if that was the case it would never come to term, in order to maintain the pregnancy the fetus must suppress the local immune system.

I know very well what mens rea is, probably better than you do.
IF a fetus is a person, it also would have to be "assigned" a level of mens rea for legal purposes - this would be as a mentally incompetent person ie the fetus cannot legally be held responsible for it's actions, be they voluntary or involuntary actions. Even though a person who is mentally incompetent cannot be legally charged for any voluntary or involuntary action it does not mean that they are free to impose on another person, nor does it mean that a person being imposed upon by a mentally incompetent person cannot defend themselves up to an including deadly force and that the state has a legal duty to help protect all people from such imposition.

Prolonged injury is anything longer that six weeks.

The only flailing here is being done by you.

 

The only question is YOURS? Can't answer mine.....why not?

Abortion is not """a homicide against a helpless child in utero"""" so you don't even have a legitimate question just the usual Anti-Choicers rant """ ignore what happens to women, they must be punished for having sex"

 

Depends on what category of homicide that state decides that act is. If they decide it is a capital offense, then yes. Why is killing a child in utero different than killing an infant?

 

Abortion is a medical procedure, are you denied a medical procedure for injuries caused by you taking a risk . .yes or no?

and as usual you are wrong, medical care is defined as "the provision by a physician of services related to the maintenance of health, prevention of illness, and treatment of illness or injury" - http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/medical+care

 

A fetus allowed to merely exist will develop into a born human being. Mentally incompetent people are free to kill at any time for any reason in your opinion? WOW! Given your arguments here, your chest beating about what you know is unimpressive.

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Abortion is a hit by a hit man, who just happens to be a doctor.

 

nope, the only question is does the woman consent to being made pregnant by the fertilized ovum.

 

Nope! I already stated the only real question here. At least you seem to be admitting that abortion is a homicide (there is no rational argument to the contrary) that is progress.

 

She did that when she engaged in intercourse.

 

A mentally incompetent person would NEVER be convicted of a crime, not even murder, and nowhere did I say "Mentally incompetent people are free to kill at any time for any reason in your opinion", I know you enjoy making things up but even for you this is absurd, you didn't even bother to read my reply properly did you?

Just goes to show you really don't know what mens rea means or even how it is applied.

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Nope, your question is irrelevant.

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Consent; something else you are showing how little you know about.

 

Well as you have been proven wrong on that point you are just wallowing in ignorance and denial.

 

I obviously understand this subject matter better than you. A homicide is not justifiable by someone merely posing some slight risk of harm to you. I understand mens rea much better than you do, but to be clear are you alleging that all pregnant women are mentally incompetent?

 

Clearly you do not, and pregnancy is not a slight risk .. any of the single items that occurs during pregnancy eg. hormone increasing by up to 400%, blood pressure increasing by up to 15%, suppression of local immunity, a new organ being grown, re-routing of circulatory system, if they were to happen to you WOULD be seen as serious injuries.

Obviously you do not understand mens rea or how it is applied, and no women are not mentally incompetent, that applies to the fetus.

 

Nope, it is a slight risk of any lasting complication.Certainly doesn't rise to the level of imminent risk of death or serious injury, which is generally the threshold to justify a self defense homicide.