The phenomenon of trolling

Can you give an example of that Nazi trolling?

 

This post is a blatant example of trolling.

Thus I will not respond.

 

I tend to post provocative threads, and like to look into controversial issues. So most of my posts are pointed, and attract those with polemical views. I don't really consider these, 'trolls', just highly partisan believers who are intolerant of diverse views. They cannot consider another POV, just attack it with phony caricatures and distortions.

Here are the topics that seem to attract the dogmatists:
Abortion
Global warming
Evolution
Christianity & the bible
Gun issues
Atheism
Socialism
Trump

Of course, that covers about 90% of the threads here, so what else should we expect!

In many venues, a 'troll' is one who posts views contrary to the echo chamber majority. Anyone can be called a troll for daring to oppose the status quo.

I look at opposition as a complex collection of things:
1. Upset Indoctrination
2. Groupthink loyalty
3. Ego
4. Always oppose the enemy! (Similar to #2)
5. Promote the Narrative/propaganda
6. Focus on the agenda

'Truth!' is seldom the goal, but 'winning arguments'.. a very human pastime..

Few people have a sincere love of Truth, but are driven be indoctrination, ego, fear, and hatred. I recognize that many of the knee jerk reactions are just programmed responses, not logical reactions to a different perspective.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~Arthur Schopenhauer

 

That is the motto of the JDL terrorist group:


https://www.google.com/search?q=jew...ome..69i57.11675j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

"Abortion
Global warming
Evolution
Christianity & the bible
Gun issues
Atheism
Socialism"

Aren't these all just sub-arguments of the only subject that exists?

"Trump"

 

Here's some good advice going forward. As a rule, never parade your disassociations.
Teachable moment for someone out there.

 

Anytime you express an opinion other people will usually comment on it. Some might agree. Others will disagree. If you don't want people to hurt your feelings when they call you a dumbass then keep your lips zipped.

 

We are in the second phase with regard to Trump.

 

Your post is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow anything written in the post you quoted. Perhaps you intended to respond to some other post.
Please, elaborate. I am quite curious.

 

`

You are obviously trolling.

 

Now here I am in complete disagreement. Self esteem is worthless. A narcissist is just brimming with self esteem. It is self doubt which drives men to great achievements.

 

How wise- you say that control of ignorance is achieved by allowing them to insult or make fools of themselves without comment.
Incredible.

We are seeing a lot of such thing today- where the right to insult others is labeled free speech (if you are a liberal) but the right to object to insult is an attempt to deny free speech.
Discussion is the way rational people broaden their understandings, review their beliefs and either alter or keep them because of it. Having jackasses in the discussion that are primarily there to harass others is not participation, it's just the nature of jackasses- usually people whose parents failed to teach them respect and self discipline, making them unfit for social interactions at any level. When such people come to harass rather than contribute, they are simply identifying themselves, and there is a good chance that will be clearly acknowledged.

 

You are welcome to disagree.
However, self-esteem is only worthless to people who think faking it is the same as having it. The real thing is enormously powerful. And good men with self esteem always have some self doubt, which is why they are constantly reviewing their beliefs and improving themselves. However, without self-esteem, they will never be comfortable with who they think they are, never have the kind of confidence and courage that allows men to do great things. Self-esteem isn't arrogance; not the assumption you are perfect, it is the recognition that you have the capacity to excel despite your fears, and the have a duty to yourself to do so.

 

Who have been filled with self-esteem? Ghetto kids. Who have been denied self-esteem? Asian kids.

And who have succeeded???

If you are filled with self-esteem you need never seek the esteem of others. You need never accomplish anything to be comfortable with who you are.

 

Fundamental flaw in your thinking. When you say SELF esteem- the key word is self. It is what YOU think of yourself. Nobody can give it to you- nobody can take it away from you. Unless of course you believe your self worth and identity are what somebody else wants to make you- in which case, what you think is self-esteem and will sell your soul for is peer-esteem, and you have given them power over your identity. Peer-esteem at times is nice to have, but still not the real thing. That too however can be phoney- if you grovel to get their "respect", they actually think you are nothing, but keep you around because you suck up. The people who have real self-esteem will respect real self esteem, and that will get you a great many good things in life. You have to be your own man, not what someone else tells you to be. Asian traditions generally breed self-esteem building traits into the kids..... Ghetto traditions generally don't.

Everybody has something of value- a talent, a skill potential, something that makes them unique and original. Your job is to find it and make the most of it, not to be a copy or patchwork of what you think people around you want to see. The answers are inside of us in everybody. Many will live and die and never find them, because they think they are only worth what someone else says they are.

 

If an artist paints a painting and everyone thinks it ugly, then it is ugly and the artist ought to quit.

You are completely wrong about Asian traditions. Tiger moms are hypercritical of their children. They consider this criticism "encouragement." And you contradict yourself by claiming that Asian traditions build self-esteem. Before you said nobody could give it to you and nobody can take it away.

Some people's talent is selling this motivational malarky. They do quite well financially at it.

 

It's quite true that many people sell motivational BS. Why? Because so many people are so lazy, they want the easy way out and will buy a promise of a quick fix for their problems- but they want it now; they don't want to have to work or change to get it, and so they wind up with little more than a temporary high. In other words, there are people conning suckers. There are also people selling fake I-phones, Gucci fashion goods, Rolex watches and everything else. The fact that fakes are around doesn't mean there is nothing real- in fact, it is a sort of flattery, a recognition that the real thing is extremely valuable. Cheap people will settle for fakes to avoid having to work for the real thing. If you want the real thing and didn't get it programmed into you as a kid.... You have a big problem. It's possible to fix it, but few people have what it takes, and nobody can do it for you. And- I'm not guessing here, it is an area I know a great deal about.

It sounds like you think self-esteem is a sort of arrogance, and it is not. It is the power to control your own life and destiny, and teaches you to respect others enough to allow them the same right. You can't buy it. You have to earn it from yourself.

 

What if they were expert opinions? And I would certainly fire a brain surgeon if his peers thought him incompetent, no matter how elevated his self esteem.

I do so think. People who esteem themselves will look down on others. I much prefer modesty as a virtue.

* The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence. (Bukowski)

 

I think the term, 'troll!', is just a colorful term for propagandist or heckler. Some posters do not care about reasoned debate, just promoting their issue, whatever it is. So they flood the forum with volume, rather than reason. Or, they heckle, in antifa style, to disrupt any reasoned debate that might occur.

 

The progressive academic institutions TRY to overcome the LACK of self esteem that is common with your 'ghetto kids', while the Asians are stereotypically ingrained by their family structure.

It is the familial support that inspires confidence and self esteem, not hollow words from academians. They teach the exact opposite, then try to counter their soul numbing ideology with empty platitudes.

 

Obviously, you are talking about narcissism, not self-esteem. Unearned perception of self esteem is faked all the time- but that is not the real thing, and I see you do not know the difference. IF you have earned the real thing, something wonderful happens- you are no longer intimidated by those who have accomplished more, you do not need to degrade anyone or put people down- because you are totally secure within your own capacity. You actually find yourself experiencing true empathy and trying to figure out how you can help other become more; find the same condition within themselves. That is only true of the real thing; those faking it never experience that. Fakes abound, however.

Of course the human condition being what it is, those others will still be intimidated by your comfort and confidence, and will still spit on you for trying to help. They are the ones who need to denigrate others; take down those they perceive as better to be able to tell themselves they are equal. That is all in their minds, but fully in force over their perceptions. They are the ones who have confidence in their own stupidity- and that keeps them from bringing change to their own life.

A great many people who have total self esteem are modest- often in an effort not to give those who lack it the opportunity to feel they are being put down because someone else has moved up. Sometimes that results in those people, who rank themselves through the eyes of others- thinking they have become more because some accomplished person has treated them as if they were. Doesn't help.

 

There is little difference between self esteem and narcissism.

Going back to my mediocre artist example. If people don't like the artist's work he is supposed to consider them no-talent philistines, if he has self-esteem. That's what you said. Of course if he esteems himself a great artist and nobody likes his work he is going to become bitter and misanthropic.

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How can you tell you have earned the real thing if you have earned it from yourself?

 

In the years I taught the skills of self development, focusing especially on self esteem- and I taught this to teachers for school districts, to psychologists, to executives- I found that those who lack it have an incredibly difficult time understanding it, and most refuse to try or even consider they may not be correct. Self-protection, if I refuse to recognize, then I can't find I'm wrong. That's not a criticism, it's an observation- and it explains why so many people desperately in need of it will never find it.

The difference between the real and fake is not trivial- it's overwhelmingly clear, and those who acquire it have absolutely no doubt- while those who pretend or tell themselves it is so always know inside that it's not real. There are other very dramatic aspects to it as well. Things you simply can't imagine until they come true.

Many great artists were highly criticized, ostracized, laughed at and poor while alive- and today, their work is worth millions. Do you think a painting by Van Gough changes over time and improves with age like wine? Van Gough died virtually unknown and penniless. Sold only one painting in his entire life, even though he produced 900 paintings and over a thousand other works of art. In 1990, one of his works sold at auction in three minutes for $82.5 million. The total of his works are considered to be worth around $3 billion dollars today. I would say the people of his time were definitely lacking in talent, unable to recognize art- wouldn't you?

 

It's a subtle put down, just the sort of thing people loaded with self-esteem pull all the time. Only people with self-esteem will not consider they may not be correct, in my observation. How can people who think so well of themselves ever think they might be wrong?

Narcisists have absolutely no doubt either. They are not pretending. But speak to me of these things I can't imagine.

Van Gogh was psychotic and delusional and a suicide. Not the sort of poster boy you want for self-esteem.

 

Everybody needs some sort of a hobby.