The Texas shooting shows the futility of arming teachers

No it doesn't it represents twisted emotional appeals by people who want to promote wacky religious ideas

 

It's not that we "need guns without a license." The 2nd Amendment is there in case the government refuses to grant licenses. And sure enough, DC banned guns. That's exactly what set up the Heller decision. Mr. Heller was a special police officer who filed an application for a license to keep a gun in his home. DC said no.

That said, I would not have announced a broad personal right to own a gun had I been on the Supreme Court for the Heller case. Not sure what I would have done, but DC was just asking for it.

 

I'm going to start a separate thread and poll on amending the constitution, and I invite everyone to commentand vote there.

 

Will try to answer more fully when I get a chance.
However the post above has damaged credibility because of it’s repeated use of ‘England’.

 

If the mention of the country name bothers you when the response was speaking of that country's history, look harder; I'm sure you will find some other irrelevant reasons for doubt.
You're probably disappointed, but I'm not here to earn your or anyone approval. It counts for nothing. Facts count in how we see things, but people who construct whole opinions on fragments of facts are never even close to right.

All this comes back to the nature of cultures and their contributions to problems including gun control. It's a tangent, but sourced in the thread path.

 

Not true, at least not entirely. The US Federal Militia is defined by current Federal Law as all able-bodied men between 17 and 49 years of age. I aged out 2 years ago, but sadly "able-bodied" out about 2 years earlier. Nothing in the law provides for disarming ex-members, however, so even though I no longer am a member of the militia, there is no legal reason for me to be disarmed, not to mention the 2A and Heller decision. And there's another gun control SCOTUS case that we should get a good result from that is going to make the gun grabbers lose their minds, as it's going to force all states to issue "shall issue" CCWs. No more needing to be a friend of the Mayor to get one if you're an NYC resident!

So, the US still has a national militia, it's just that nobody knows about it! Not even its members.

 

I think he may be objecting that the independence from "the state of Great Britain" was the object of the founders' declaration, as opposed to "England."

Pettifogging?

 

One thing at a time.

So you admit that crazy shooters don't choose their targets based on whether they are gun free zone.

The victims, like the police, are unable to stop the mass shooters.

And the mass shooters can arm themselves however they want.

 

Is that percentage the same among the young (16-30 years) ?

Agreed, I don't think God comes into this.

I don't think anyone who murders 19 children could be deemed capable of following any tenet or rule. God only knows what was in his mind to make him do this.

I'm sure God is shamed by the number of people killed in his good name. Or how his teachings were corrupted to make Bishops rich and powerful and line his Churches with gold.
But we drift off topic.

I have suggested something similar myself last time we discussed a mass murder of kids on here. That guns have a control over their owners that goes beyond reasoning. Whether its the feeling of empowerment or as you say the devil I couldn't tell you, but I have never seen a race of people so determined not to give up a single tiny part of the current gun law.
Can you imagine anyone watching Charlton Heston gripping his Mobile phone and saying "Out of my cold dead hands"
They'd say he was as insane.

 

there is only one thing to address here gun control caused this

No. They specifically pick gun free zones.

because of gun control.

The more you point out that the teachers were unable to defend themselves and unable to stop the shooter the more you make my point for me.

Yes they do not care about the law any conceivable weapon is available for them.

This one shows an AR-15 probably because of you people memeing it

 

If as you say facts count then get the facts right regarding the correct name of the country.

 

I reject the notion that me and my family should be made defenseless just so you can feel safe.

When you can promise me the world is a safe place then we can talk. When the same damn politicians who want to strip our guns give up their guns and don't live protected by guns then we can talk. My life is just as important as theirs and neither they nor you have the right to strip me and my family of effective self-defense in the name of safety.

 

You have the right to have thermonuclear weapons and nerve gas to defend yourself and your family don’t you?

 

OK, sea lawyer.

 

70% of teachers do not want to be armed.

They know it will cause more problems than a small chance of defending themselves if a crazed gunman shows up at their school.

Guns are the problem.

You will never be able to explain why the Republican conventions are gun free zones, just like Trump's speeches at the NRA....

Ramos bought his guns legally.

 

So- you missed all the relevant points of the post, and focused on the choice to Identify the nation by it's identity that has been in common use for more than a thousand years, but is not politically correct to some?

You refer to women as "birthing persons" too, right? Won't use bathrooms that lack your chosen description?

 

Ok, be that as it may.... But my question, simply put, was "Were either of the murdered teachers equipped with firearms?" It will probably trickle out, along with the other details of this tragedy, and there are sure to be many things we will learn....

For another thing, in addition to the complete results of the autopsy which was done on this creature, I would want to know if Ramos had been taking any prescription drugs, if he had been enrolled at any point in any of the 'touchy-feely' 'counseling' programs that public schools are known for, where the hell his parent(s) were when all this was going on, etc.

 

I agree; the real question that can guide change is to learn how this person came to the point he could do this. His mindset was developed over time and circumstances, and in an environment that did not recognize or intercept it's course.

 

I have to admit that it may be asking too much to arm every elementary school teacher in the country with a loaded gun. Then there's the training that goes on top of it. I taught middle school for one year. Adding active shooter drill and firearms responsibility and training on top of dealing with the subject matter, rowdiness and bullying in a classroom will be too much of a load for too many teachers.

 

What an effed up situation.

 

In theory, you're right, but the situation has become so dire by now that we must be able to take some kind of preemptory action to stop these people before they commit these horrible crimes of mass-murder. We have neither the time nor the resources (or the expertise, either, for that matter) to be able to fully understand what causes these kinds of actions in some people, but nothing similar in the behaviors of the vast majority of others.

So, we'll have to take broad-based actions, and probably 'paint with an overly-broad brush', which is a thing I loathe, but in the case of creatures like Salvador Ramos, what else can we do? Banning all weapons of self-defense is absolutely not (NOT) anything that addresses the problem, nor is it even plausible, because if for no other reason, it would be suicidal for our society to do this, given how many millions of weapons are already 'out there' and very easily obtainable by both the 'criminals and crazies'.

I predict that we'll start by raising the minimum age for gun purchases and possession to 21. It probably won't do much good, but it may help somewhat -- without trampling on the right of the majority of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves against the criminally-insane and other murderers.

Hint: Even if the age for purchasing weapons were 21 instead of 18, the Ramos-creature could easily have made the hour's drive into one of the barrios in nearby metro San Antonio and bought any kind of weapon commonly available in the United States, all under-the-table, on the Black Market....

 

I reject the notion that you cannot be safe without a gun. 72,000,000 people live quite safely without guns in the UK.
However you have built the monster by allowing everyone to own a gun unchecked and unfettered, so now you need a gun as well.
What I am trying to suggest is the merest changes to try and reverse this mess you've made.
However I will not bother you with my thoughts as you quite rightly stated I do not even live in America and you can rightfully ignore me.
I am not in the habit of talking to people who wish to ignore me (That would be mad) I answer you now out of politeness.

 

The government has no problem keeping lists of potential threats. The no-fly list for example, which a person can get on just by making the wrong statement in the wrong place. I would see a list of people with a history anger issues wouldn't be that hard for them to come up with, and the purpose would not be to harass or interfere or restrict- but to be aware; to go on alert when something connected to them appears. For example if Cruz, the parkland shooter were on such a list, the tips to the FBI that he was likely to shoot up a school would have red-flagged the issue instead of ignoring it.

Unfortunately, most things government does for our own good have hidden agendas that promote control and power, and wind up being tools of abuse. Thus, I'm very skeptical and hesitant to endorse such things.

 

There is also the straw purchaser syndrome.

One of these mass shooters, I don't remember which, got some adult to buy the gun for him. An insane idea, but it's out there.

 

They could have stopped him they were ordered not to for 45 minutes. When ordered to do so they did quickly. A teacher on the stop would have had a good chance .