THE UKRAINIAN ARMY HAS BEEN DEFEATED. WHAT’S LEFT IS MOP-UP

With all the retreating the Russians are doing it is a strange "mop up".

 

You have the attitude that you did, but you didn't.
I know an airline mechanic who works at the Madrid airport. He talks to pilots and other people who travel a lot. He tells me that the Russian anti-missile system needs a certain time to respond after detecting incoming missiles. If the missiles come from a location as close as Ukraine, the system doesn't have time to respond and the Russians will get nuked. The US prevented the Russians from installing missiles in Cuba. If the West is bent on making Ukraine a NATO country with missiles pointed at Russia, what else can Russia do except the same thing the US did during the Cuban missile crisis?

 

Well, how about that! I never knew we invaded and annexed Cuba during the missile crisis.

 

We would have if the Russians hadn't backed down and left.

 

Of course, we were never in Ukraine and still aren't. Minor difference. We also were never threatening to put nuclear missiles or any other kind of weapons under our control there. Another minor difference you seem too happy to overlook, cosmo.

 

Update from Ukraine | Ruzzia announces the Massive Evacuation. Kherson will be taken back by Ukraine

 

Sounds good I hope this is accurate. But caution please the Ruskastanis were already evacuating civilians a couple few days ago.

 

Ukraine is bent on joining NATO because of Putins aggression, Its a volunteer program, countries arnt drafted.
Once again Putin only has himself to blame for manufacturing his own fear. Now Sweden, Switzerland, Finland and Ukraine are signing up due to his aggression's. Such a smart dude huh.
He planned this for some reason according to Trump.

Your story does defeat another narrative though, that putin wouldn't have done this if Trump was elected, it provides the evidence that that's simply false as well. This was always going to happen, and Im glad Trump isnt in the office while it unfolds. Bidens filled his role as far as im concerned.

Guess what, if its that close, the Ukraines will be nuked as well...So that kills that line of reasoning as well.

 

You just conclude what you want to be true. Their not saying publicly that they wanted to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine doesn't mean they didn't intend to do so. Neither you, nor I am in a position to know whether the West intended to put missiles in Ukraine.

 

You have no evidence that such a thing was ever planned. It would also be entirely unprecedented for the US or NATO to station such weapons in Ukraine. We don't even have them in current NATO member states bordering Russia.

But it's good that you admit that you're not in a position to know such things. Это хорошое начало.

 

Is it your claim that Russia's suspicion was sufficient to justify the invasion of Ukraine?

 

That's what the mainstream media say. The mainstream is the worst place to get information. The flaw in your reasoning is that you take what the mainstream says as fact.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chomsky+media

They wouldn't get nuked as badly and might come out ahead. Missiles can also be used just to threaten. The Russians would be in a much weaker position if they couldn't shoot down any incoming missiles as opposed to their being able to shoot down most of them.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eft-is-mop-up.598202/page-159#post-1073793723
(excerpt)
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If the missiles come from a location as close as Ukraine, the system doesn't have time to respond and the Russians will get nuked.
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No, the mainstream media is the best place to get information, because it has journalistic standards and generally does not have an agenda in its reporting. Our media is not like Russia's Kremlin-controlled media. The only way you can accuse our media of being controlled is to launch into baseless conspiracy theories about the Illuminati or whatever.

 

I dont even have cable. Bashing the mainstream media a new sales tactic to push youtube revenue or something?
With everything Russia has demonstrated of its systems, a strike could come from Egypt, Alaska, the sea, France, etc, and the system would still fail.

 

Of course I don't. Only an insider would know these details. If the west was planning to install missiles in Ukraine, they certainly wouldn't have announced it and there wouldn't have been any evidence that someone looking for info in Google and Bing would have had access to. We have to logically surmise what's going on in these cases.

I think it's probably more than suspicion. One has to look at the long term. They had to choose from between being defenceless in the future, and starting a distasteful war and not being defenceless in the future. Assuming that scenario is true, they chose the lesser of the two evils. I think I would have wanted to do the same thing in their place.

 

How would they be anymore defenseless then Canada, Mexico, or any other part of the world?
If you feel people are out to get you..Its possibly because you habitually do things that cause even you to want to retaliate.
A thief thinks everyone steals, a liar doesn't trust anyone, a cheater thinks their partner is sleeping around, etc.

 

All you're doing is speculating. You're not in any position to talk authoritatively on this. There's a big difference between being able to detect missiles when they're far enough away to respond and not being able to detect them until there's not enough time to respond. That can make a big difference in a nuclear war.

See above.


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To latecomers...

Here's what's being discussed.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-what’s-left-is-mop-up.598202/page-156#post-1073792033

 

That is arrant nonsense, and merely a disguise for aggression.

 

What part of what i wrote, didnt make the speculation obvious?
For the purposes of this discussion, the current situation in Ukraine with his blown up bridge, the failed pipeline and their failure to dominate are evidence enough to counter that irrational fear you pretend is the reason for his land grab.
Face it no one can read his mind, so we must go by his actions, and its that he thought he could take what he couldn't afford. Its costing him more then if he just bought the land from Ukraine and liberated his people that way.
If its not for sale, its defiantly not for the taking. What was the problem with evacuating his people?
Concerned about missiles hitting your country? That's gonna happen now if he tries anything dumb. Invading guaranteed the results he feared.

 

Or we can reserve judgment and accept that we are not in possession of sufficient factual evidence to make any claim one way or another. Of course, the precedents I mentioned do offer clues, however, that you're simply wrong. Not even Putler has used that argument to justify his invasion, choosing instead to lie about alleged Nazis in Ukraine and claiming some non-existent right on modern Russia's part over Ukrainian territory.

It is interesting that some here like to pound the table and insist that NATO supposedly had plans to station nukes in Ukraine when even Russian officials do not rely on such arguments. It seems they deliver different lies through different channels to different audiences.

 

This battle isn't over and it ain't over til' it's over. Get the picture?

 

Estonia Latvia Lithuania and Poland. NATO countries already on Russia's border

And because of this act he's now driven Finland and Sweden to join NATO.

This was never about Ukraine and NATO. Is was about a land and resources grab.

 

Ukraine might want to join NATO, but Serbia just told NATO where to shove their membership.

Serbia will not join NATO, says Vučić

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-RWLJfijfuE

 

You're being dogmatic. You're just concluding what you want to be true. Judging by his actions there are several plausible scenarios but simply choosing the one that makes the most sense to you is not the scientific method*. There are probably a lot of important factors that have to be considered that we can't learn about just by checking the internet. If you don't use the scientific method, you can come to an erroneous conclusion.

Now Russia has its nuclear deterrent which would make NATO hesitate to attempt an all out attack. I would bet they wouldn't attempt it. See the first video in post #3868.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-ukrainian-army-has-been-defeated-what’s-left-is-mop-up.598202/page-155#post-1073790975

If there are nuclear missiles in Ukraine and they're too close to detect in time to intercept them, Russia's nuclear deterrent will be sharply reduced. They'll have to depend largely on the missiles in their submarines which the US might be following with their own submarines ready to destroy them on short notice. The Russians would want to avoid this scenario so they would try to stop it before it could start to happen. There are so many plausible scenarios that we can't just choose the one we like the most.

You sound like you haven't read the info I posted.

Some of Us Don’t Think the Russian Invasion Was “Aggression.” Here’s Why.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/some-us-dont-think-russian-invasion-aggression-heres-why/5795980
(excerpt)
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“We are not threatening anyone.… We have made it clear that any further NATO movement to the east is unacceptable. There’s nothing unclear about this. We aren’t deploying our missiles to the border of the United States, but the United States IS deploying their missiles to the porch of our house. Are we asking too much? We’re just asking that they not deploy their attack-systems to our home…. What is so hard to understand about that?” Russian President Vladimir Putin,
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Are you trying to mislead those viewers who haven't read the article?

Ukraine protrudes further into Russia and may be closer to some of it's anti-missile systems.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/785524767/world-map-puzzle-naming-the-countries

They might have been de facto NATO members anyway. If there was a secret agreement to let the US use its bases in the event of a war, "NATO" member is just a title. That's how the Russians were probably thinking.

I addressed this type of argument at the beginning of this post.

"There are so many plausible scenarios that we can't just choose the one we like the most."



*
https://www.google.com/search?q=sci...jEyLjUtMZgBAKABAbABAMgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz



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Who thinks this isn't a plausible scenario?

America’s Diabolic Plan to Subjugate and Break Up Russia
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-diabolic-plan-subjugate-breakup-russia/5796662
(excerpt)
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Finally, U.S. was successful in carrying out the coup in Ukraine to overthrow the pro-Russian, democratically elected president Viktor Yanukovych and was replaced with pro-western, rabidly anti-Russian president Volodymyr Zelensky. The idea behind this coup was to make Ukraine anti-Russian so that it can be admitted into NATO. The chief objective to grab Ukraine has been to place America’s nuclear missiles on Russia’s border with Ukraine, only 5-minute flying time away from nuking Moscow. The idea behind being that if it is done that fast, then Russia’s command-and-control will be preemptively destroyed before Russia could launch retaliatory weapons.

Once Russia has been neutralized, it will be forced to obey U.S. hegemony; will become a vassal state of the United States like the UK and other western European nations and then its vast resources will be made available for western powers to exploit and profit from.

U.S. and European countries view Russia, as Hitler did in 1941, as a vast arena for plunder. Through a combination of war and internal destabilization, these imperialist countries seek to instigate the breakup of Russia. Then, the U.S. will reign supreme amongst the nations of the world. This is the diabolical plan of the U.S. government.

 

Serbia is a mess right now.