THE UKRAINIAN ARMY HAS BEEN DEFEATED. WHAT’S LEFT IS MOP-UP

Justice = Death of Russian invader
“War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
― William Tecumseh Sherman

 

I agree 100%. Russia should not be conscripting men who want nothing to do with Putins war to die as cannon fodder in his endeavor to steal foreign land.

 

Time for the West to think about how to engage with defeated Russia

 

The Hill
The Russian army’s trouble runs deep

 

Ukraine Conflict Updates

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 16

Click here to read the full report.

Key Takeaways

• Russian sources and proxy officials are flagrantly touting the forced adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families.
• Ukrainian sources continued to clarify the damage caused by the massive November 15 Russian missile strike across Ukraine.
• The Russian information space largely followed the official Kremlin framing of the missile strike on Polish territory as a Western provocation.
• Wagner Group financer Yevgeny Prigozhin is continuing to establish himself as a central figure in the pro-war ultranationalist community likely in pursuit of ambitious political goals.
• Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations in the directions of Svatove and Kreminna.
• Russian forces continued ground attacks near Bakhmut and Avdiivka, and in western Donetsk Oblast.
• Ukrainian forces continued targeting Russian forces and logistics nodes in southern Ukraine.
• Multiple reports indicate that the morale and psychological state of Russian forces in the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts are exceedingly low.
• Russian officials continued their efforts to replace proxy officials in occupied territories with Russian officials, forcibly relocate residents, and integrate occupied areas with Russia.

Ukrainian forces continued to target Russian military concentrations and logistics in Luhansk Oblast on November 16. Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces struck Mirne, Perevalsk, and Zimohiria with HIMARS rockets on November 16.[31] Geolocated footage posted on November 16 shows Ukrainian forces purportedly striking Russian positions in Bilourakyne north of Starobilsk.[32] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that a November 15 Ukrainian strike on Russian concentrations near Denezhnykove (between Starobilsk and Luhansk City) killed and wounded at least 50 Russian military personnel.[33] . . . .

Multiple reports indicate that the morale and psychological state of Russian forces in the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts are exceedingly low. Significant losses on the battlefield, mobilization to the front lines without proper training, and poor supplies have led to cases of desertion. The independent Russian media outlet ASTRA reported that Russian authorities are holding about 300 Russian mobilized men in a basement in Zaitseve, Luhansk Oblast, for refusing to return to the front lines.[60] ASTRA reported it has identified at least seven such holding locations in the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts for Russian citizens. Lipetsk Oblast Governor Igor Artamonov reported that relatives of mobilized personnel specifically appealed to him about poor conditions near Svatove, Luhansk Oblast.[61] Artamonov stated that mobilized personnel reached the front lines without training or proper equipment and experienced severe losses. . . .

 

Humiliating? This is only in Western propaganda. All adequate Western generals understand this Russian maneuver.
But let's discuss what benefits the withdrawal of troops to the left bank of the Dnieper gives the Russians.
Listen to CNN.
"The regrouping of Russian troops and the retreat from the right-bank bridgehead to the left bank of the Dnieper will make it possible to restore a defense in depth, as well as establish stable supply routes for the group. Attempts by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to force the Dnieper will cost them an exorbitant price. By withdrawing troops from the right bank to the left, Russia continues to control a large part of the Kherson region, including access to the Sea of Azov. Defense in depth allows not only to hold positions, complicating the attempts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to further attack with the crossing of the Dnieper, but also to strike on the right bank."
Also, this maneuver of the Russians will allow them to transfer additional forces to the Donbass, where the Russians are successfully advancing.
By the way, the key to victory in the special operation lies in the Donbas. After taking the echeloned defense of the Ukrainians, which they had been building for eight years, the whole latitude of maneuver opens up for the Russians. If you want - take Kyiv, if you want to take Odessa and Nikolaev, if you want - go beat the iodine-deficient rabble in western Ukraine.
But ! As I have said many times, the Russians do not want a quick victory. It is beneficial for Russians to drag out the conflict. If the Russians fought only with Ukraine, the issue would be resolved in a maximum of a month. But the Russians are at war with the collective west (weapons, ammunition, mercenaries, funding, propaganda, economic pressure, intelligence, instructors and spotters .... and much more - all this is Western)
In addition, we must take into account 30 years of propaganda and zombification of Ukrainians with the ideology of fascism and anti-Russianness.
Then leave in Russians in the rear, albeit scanty, but present in a small part of the population of Ukraine with the ideology of fascism? The Russians don't need it.
One example.
Previously, Russians left part of the Kharkov region and Ukrainians entered it. And the Ukrainians did such things there that after the return of the Russians to these settlements, the local population wept with joy that the Russians had returned.
The same thing is happening now in Kherson.
Ukrainians are robbing people, humiliating them... you watch a video about what queues of bread are now in Kherson....
So, all illusions disappear from the previously pro-Ukrainian residents.

By the way, in the history of Russia there is a similar historical example.
When, during the civil war, the Bolsheviks offered the inhabitants of Siberia to enlist in the Red Army to fight Kolchak, the inhabitants of the settlements refused.
Then Kolchak captured the regions of Siberia (the Bolsheviks retreated) and the Kolchakites did what, what the Ukrainians are doing now, for example, in Kherson.
Then the Red Army recaptured the previously abandoned settlements .... and the population of these settlements stood in line at the recruiting centers in order to voluntarily go to war with Kolchak.
Thus, the outlook of the population is changing harshly, but very understandably and quickly.

 

No, no, its even great Russian victory. They stage fake referendum, annexed Herson, even changed their fake constitution, said that Herson will be together with Russia forever, and this forever lasted one month. No humiliation here at all, great victory against West.

 

Can you tell more, what kind of ideology of fascism? You are fascist, and I can explain why. But you will never explain anything about 30 years of propaganda and zombification of Ukrainians with the ideology of fascism, because you simply do not understand the meaning of this term.

 

But you don't worry about half the components of American weapons coming from China. American planes fly because Russians supply titanium components to the USA.
As for Iranian supplies, the head of Iran denies this. Like he said - , prove it.
But even if the Russians are buying Iranian missiles, so what?
Why would they build new factories if they can buy cheap?
By the way, the Russians in the Second World War also buy 2% of weapons from Western countries. Bought, it must be admitted, at repeatedly inflated prices. But it was. Doesn't it bother you?

 

When at the OFFICIAL level in Ukraine began to glorify the Bendera? Those who shot 100 thousand people in Babi Yar, those who burned people alive in the Belarusian Khatyn (and there were many such settlements). The glorification of such geeks is called fascism.

 

We'll see.

 

Baby Jar has nothing to do with Banera, who was jailed in a German concentration camp almost all wartime. Also, Bandera could not act in Belarus, simply because it's hard to do from German concentration camp. So you are just lying, as always. And in Ukraine there was various opinions about Bandera, definitely there was not 30 years of glorification. So again, you are just lying. But in your country subject like Stalin, compared with whom, Bandera is an innocent child, all these 30 years were glorified, his crimes were justified or denied. But all this history actually do not matter, today Russia act like fascist state and you, as a fascist, support these actions. This is what matters the most.

 

Yes. I think so. Naturally, adjusted for a large, literally - huge, probability of a nuclear war. Nuclear war will certainly hasten the process of fall.
But if war can be avoided, then - about 8 years, I think, will be spent on reformatting the world economy.
And as a result, the termination of the special military operation. (however, it must be noted that the military operation in Ukraine may end earlier. But in this case there will be another military operation (for example, a conflict with Poland or the Baltic countries), if it ends there relatively quickly, then another one will appear .... It I am I mean)
There will be many regional wars or one nuclear war. All this will last until the world economy is completely reformatted.

 

CNN could hardly be considered to have had a firm grasp and good track record regarding the fine art of modern warfare. They are well known in the West for repeatedly providing predictions and assessments which are baseless and rarely result in accurate predictions.

Likewise, your assessment of the realities on the battlefield is entirely naive and slanted towards the most favorable analysis possible for the Russians. "The most important characteristic of a skilled commander is the ability to accurately assess the capability and state of not just his enemy but his own forces without bias. A general who possesses such insight knows when victory is possible and when it is not. It is this characteristic which makes his forces unassailable and victorious." You have failed in this regard... ignored the danger posed by Ukraine, overlooked limitations of Russian forces, and have overestimated their effectiveness under the realities of the current battlefield. It is a common mistake of those inexperienced in the Art of War. It is the natural human tendency of commanders to ignore their own frailties and disregard enemy strength of force and position. You do not possess such characteristics. This is why you will find your ability to see the battle as it will unfold wanting. To date the lack of accuracy in your predictions has likely already caused you frustration.

 

Ahahaha .... You still tell how the Ukrainians dug the Black Sea (they have a well-known story, just like they claim that Buddha was Ukrainian)
Now reality.
On June 30, 1941, the Ukrainian fascist and Hitler's professional agent Stepan Bandera (undercover nickname in the Abwehr - Consul-2) proclaimed in Lvov the re-establishment of the state of Western Ukraine.
This "state" lasted only five weeks. However, in this short period of time, five thousand Ukrainians, 15 thousand Jews and several thousand Poles were killed.
Once again, on June 30, 1941, in Lvov, Ukrainian nationalists promulgated the "Act of the Proclamation of the Ukrainian State." It stated that "The newly rising Ukrainian State will work closely with the National Socialist Greater Germany, which, under the leadership of its Leader Adolf Hitler, creates a new order in Europe and in the world and helps the Ukrainian People to free themselves from Moscow occupation." Bandera was proclaimed "the leader of the Ukrainian people."
Berlin did not like this initiative. His curator from Abwehr Stolze described the subsequent events as follows: “After the occupation of Lvov by German troops, Bandera moved with his headquarters to Lvov and, without the knowledge of the German authorities, including the Abwehr, announced the organization of an “independent” Ukrainian government. Since Bandera's actions were contrary to the plans of the German government, which by no means intended to give the Ukrainian nationalists, not to mention the Ukrainian people, even a shadow of independence, Canaris suggested that I stop cooperating with Bandera. I stated this to Bandera, saying that his unauthorized political activities testify to a disloyal attitude towards Germany. Bandera justified himself, arguing that he sought to benefit Germany, but after this meeting, further communication with him was terminated."
Bendera was arrested and sent to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp. But the fact is that his presence there had nothing to do with the suffering of ordinary prisoners.
He was kept in solitary cell No. 73 of the special cell "Zellenbau" for important political prisoners and was under constant guard supervision.
Bandera, according to the recollections of witnesses, ate in the dining room along with the SS officers. He did not wear the uniform of a prisoner, was not involved in forced labor. His cell was a two-room room with furniture. Bandera was allowed to visit his wife, who lived nearby, and this allowed him to continue to lead the OUN, even while in prison.
The thrifty Germans did not liquidate their agent, but left it "in reserve". And at the end of 1944, when the situation at the front finally turns towards the defeat of the Third Reich, the German special services activate Bandera again. Now he is again required to do what his people did in 1941: sabotage in the rear of the Red Army.
From the testimony of Abwehrkommando 202 officer Siegfried Müller: “On December 27, 1944, I prepared a group of saboteurs to transfer it to the rear of the Red Army with special assignments. This group consisted of three Ukrainian nationalists: Lopatinsky, Demed and one radio operator, whose name I do not remember. Stepan Bandera, in my presence, personally instructed these agents and transmitted through them to the headquarters of the UPA an order to intensify subversive work in the rear of the Red Army and establish regular radio communications with the Abwehrkommando 202."
And the testimony of Erwin Stolze: “As the commander of the “volunteer” formations of the German army, General Kestring, later told me in January 1945, Bandera was released and was recruited by Kestring to perform some tasks unknown to me.”
However, Bandera was aware that the days of the Third Reich were numbered. And the Germans themselves were no longer up to the OUN. In February 1945, the leader of the Ukrainian nationalists fled from Berlin to South Germany, where he safely waited for the end of the war. Once in the territory occupied by the allies, he avoided extradition to the Soviet Union, since he was not its citizen. The comfortable sitting in Sachsenhausen has now also become an argument to present oneself as a victim of the Nazis. In addition, cooperation with Ukrainian nationalists was of interest to Western intelligence agencies that started the Cold War against the USSR.
From the beginning of the 1950s, Stepan Bandera began to live legally in Munich, continuing to lead the OUN, whose militants did not stop the sabotage war on the territory of the Soviet Union. Retribution overtook him on October 15, 1959: the leader of the nationalists was liquidated by the KGB agent Bogdan Stashinsky.

 

I don't understand now, at first you said, that Bandera killed people in Babi Jar, now it turns out, that he proclaimed Ukrainian state and because of this got into German concentration camp, where he committed unbelievable crime - had dinner with German officers? So he killed people in Babi Jar or you just lied previous? And how it's related to "30 years of fascist propaganda" in Ukraine? What fascist propaganda exactly?

 

You're still living in the 1940's WWII? As if this has much if any relevance to 2022 Ukraine? Really? Even after the fall of the Soviet Union, the subsequent 33 years of Russian history since and numerous government turnovers, numerous regime changes in the Ukrainian government as well, the invasion by Russia? Really? How is WWII relevant? Is this just some sort of cultural grudge ginned up in the Russia psyche by Putin's propaganda machine which Russians are unable to forget and find relevant?

 

As there is not much to be proud about now and there is no vision of future in Russia, they live in WW2 still. And all their crimes nowadays find justification in their WW2 myth, which actually do not have anything common with reality.

 

Reminds me of the tendency of blacks in the US to bring up slavery from 8 generations back (160 years ago). Something which wasn't even an American institution, but rather a remnant of our history as a part of the British colonies. A million non-black Americans died to ensure their freedom and right to the American experience and equal opportunity. Only 30% of current day black Americans have ANY ancestral roots traceable back to slaves. 70% are entirely dependents of modern-day post slavery immigration. Carribean, Ivory Coast, Western Africa, Congo, you name it. Yet they live in this false ancestral past as if it has any bearing on their lives today. After 160 years even those who actually are decendants have little remaining significant detriments attributable from ancestry 8 generations back. Demanding all manner of preferential treatment and socialist entitlements now and for generations to come. It is all too easy and common to claim victimhood to attain the wealth of other's labor, rather than by the sweat of one's own brow.

 

The collective defense of NATO is a lie for an illiterate electorate.
If you open the NATO charter, and specifically Article 5, which supposedly refers to collective defense, you will see the reality.
Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

For example, other NATO members may express concern, or send a box of canned food to help. That is - such action as it deems necessary

 

Time will tell. Don't worry about the Russians.

 

Yes. Perhaps the Russians did not count on the fact that the entire West (NATO) would actually directly intervene in the military conflict against Russia (Weapons, ammunition, funding, propaganda, intelligence, gunners, mercenaries, instructors, training camps ... etc - this all makes NATO countries a member conflict.)
Therefore, we can confidently say that the Russians are at war with NATO on the territory of Ukraine.
But they recognized this fact. Russians have drawn the appropriate conclusions. Where necessary, they strengthened the defense (for example, they left the right bank in Kherson and strengthened the left bank.) Where necessary, they increased offensive operations (For example, in the Donbas) ...
Now the Russians are systematically destroying the Ukrainian infrastructure and driving the Western economy into a serious crisis.... in general, we will soon see what happens.

 

Bandera (iodine-deficient supporters of Bandera) killed and burned people. Read about the Volyn massacre for example.
If you still don’t understand, then you need a specialist in medicine who is able to explain what is written.

 

Of course, this is directly related to Ukraine in 2022. Because the OFFICIAL policy of Ukraine in 2022 is a continuation of the policy of the Ukrainian fascists of the 1940s, who shot and burned alive thousands of innocent civilians.
However, I think you all understand this. But you're trying to keep your comfort zone by denying the obvious.
This is not surprising. Ostriches, for example, hide their heads in the sand.