To impeach, or not to impeach: there may be an alternative

Should have told their parents not to bring them here then.

Trump didn't go down to their home country, walk in their house, and take their children away, did he?

 

Do you actually believe this or are you lying?

 

Perhaps the parents should have chosen to seek their fake "asylum" in Mexico which is only a few miles from where they left.

 

He/she/alphabet is just wishing. Give it a few days and the alt-lefties will be painting the once darling Mueller as an enemy.

 

Sure. Blaming the victim would excuse his immoral behavior. Especially when the victims are minors.

 

Ok. I admit I know who Obama is. But he's not the topic of this thread.

 

Poor lefties. They are like that psycho girlfriend who refuses to acknowledge you dumped her and she acts as if you never did.

 

Ordinarily we are in agreement, but here we part company. It would be extremely foolish of the Democratic Party to impeach Trump. I watched Fox today, and who did they showcase besides Trump? The euphemistically called Trump Network focused on Senator and Presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren and her call for impeachment.

Trump Republicans talk more about impeachment than the Democrats. Trump Republicans want the Democrats to impeach Trump. Warren, AOC, Omar, and Tlaib, Democratic women who favor impeachment, are doing more damage to the Democratic Party than Trump ever could. Their rhetoric is designed to give Trump four more years.

What is the purpose here? Is it impeachment? No. Is it removing Trump from the Oval Office? YES!

Impeachment will not do that. Unless Trump murders someone, no way will Trump Republicans vote to convict Trump. Notice the total silence from the GOP leadership regarding the damaging and embarrassing evidence in the redacted version of the Mueller Report. Nothing from McConnell or Graham. They don't care. All they care about is re-electing Trump. Convicting Trump on impeachment charges won't do that.

In addition, the Democratic Party will be blamed for the shame of a failed impeachment. In addition, if the House impeaches, all that will be accomplished in the next two years is impeachment proceedings and trial in the Senate. Everything else will grind to a halt.

Which is why the Democratic leadership -- Pelosi, Hoyer, Schumer, Nadler and others -- are saying, as things stand now, there will be no impeachment proceeding. According to the leadership, there will be impeachment only if there is overwhelming, bipartisan grounds for doing so.

Why? First, the Democratic Party will be blamed for wasting taxpayer dollars and enormous time on the failed attempt, and impeachment assuredly would fail. Second, Trump would become a martyr, a victim of Democratic overreach. Three, the Democrats want to run against a crippled candidate in 2020, not a martyr. Investigations in the House will continue, including examining the unredacted version of the Mueller Report along with the underlying evidence.

What is amazing to me is, why in the hell can't Warren, a freaking Senator, see that. Amazing, positively amazing. The three young things, AOC, Omar, and Tlaib can be excused for their inexperience and incredible naïveté, but a Senator. Incredible.

As for Trump getting off light, he will suffer the indignity of a sitting President being defeated. Also, the DOJ has a rule that a sitting President can't be indicted. There are a number of crimes Trump could be charged with after leaving office.

 

What the hell? The President has the highest security clearance in the entire nation. Where the hell do you come up with your bizarre notions?

 

I’ll let Mr. Greenwald say my response

 

LOL...........Sandy's finally catching on. Perhaps you could inform the village idiots of their folly.

 

He didn’t come up with the answers democrats wanted so obviously that means he lied..... it’s complicated. So complicated that you don’t hear theories like that until you hit the 3rd grade

 

Why should we allow Trump TV to dictate the politics of the Democratics Party? I think that will damage Democrats more than anything else.

Impeaching Trump is not foolish, or intelligent or... anything. It's simply the law!

The purpose is to do what the Constitution dictates in the case of High Crimes and Misdemeanors There is simply no moral alternative. Nothing short of a Constitutional Amendment would justify the Democratic Party forgoing impeachment.

Politically, it would not be in the Democrat's best interest to remove Trump from the Oval Office. So that cannot be anybody's political objective. Why would anybody have that objective? Give Mike Pence a shot at the presidency? I believe Mike Pence has a much better chance than Trump at defeating the Democratic candidate. Trump supporters will coalesce behind him. And never-trumpers would have an excuse. And once Trump is out of the way, Democratic voters would go into the characteristic "stupor" that gave us Trump. So no.... the only objective is to follow the law. And avoid a precedent from being set.

Which, BTW, was also set when Nancy Pelosi refused to impeach or even investigate Dick Cheney (and possibly Bush) for his many many crimes.

I completely disagree that it would harm Democrats politically. But even if it did, it would damage them because they follow the law.

Fine! But before they vote to protect him, we'll have him sitting in public trying to explain his criminal actions.

I'm afraid your whole post is predicated on the premise that the objective is to remove Trump. It's not!

After seeing Trump on TV struggling to answer why he has been praising Putin, Duterte, KJU, ... and other dictators? Why he has undermined our military and the agencies under his command? Why he pressured to grant security clearance to agents who were on the payroll of foreign governments?.... Let's see who is going to come out of this with "shame".

Democrats will be shamed of a failed impeachment only if they fail to impeach him. Can you imagine him in the debates? "You accuse me of all these things, why didn't you impeach me?" And people will think: Yeah... why?

Everything else has ground to a halt for 2 and a half years already.

I'm afraid you are thinking in "theoretical", and not in "real world" terms.

Imagine a real world scenario, in which Trump sits down in front of cameras for his impeachment trial and is grilled, congressman after congressman... all of them a hundred times more intelligent than Trump. Asking him about all the crimes he has committed. What do you think you will you see?

Imagine another real world scenario, in which Trump was not impeached, and the Democratic candidate brings up his many crimes. What will that candidate respond when Trump gives him the comeback above: "Why didn't you impeach me?" And Trump will follow with: "You did not impeach me because you made it all up!" If you're worried about Democrats being attacked for spending taxpayer money, do you think ... remember: real world.... that facts are going to stop Trump from doing that? Of course not! He's going to insist again and again "Democrats wasted millions on the Mueller investigation.... with 13 angry Democrats.... and they didn't find anything. Proven by the fact that they couldn't even impeach me!".

Can you give me real world scenarios of how after impeachment Trump would come out winning? Like those I give above? I honestly can't think of any.

It's easy to attack AOC, Omar and Talib because they are young. They are inexperienced, but they are also very bright. I have been paying attention more to what they say than how they look or how old they are. And am confident that the future of the Democratic Party is in good hands.

 

Wha? What nonsense! Grand Jury Secrecy rules have nothing to do with security clearance. Among other things, they protect potential witnesses from being pressured by a potential defendant.... like Trump! Especially like Trump!

 

Read forum rules!

 

What I can’t post a video only you? It pertains to the topic and if you’d listen it would inform you. Unless your not here to be informed

 

There was hard evidence for the House to impeach Clinton. On 11 counts if I recall correctly. This deal with trump doesn't have any of that kind of hard evidence.

Personally, I do not care if the House impeaches trump or not. I see it as purely politically driven, as the Senate will not remove him from office. Seems like when the House impeached clinton, the GOP, it bit them in the arse in the next election. So, it could possibly help trump to win in 2020 as well as the dems losing seats in congress. Was that not the outcome of the clinton impeachment?

I am not voting for trump anyways, but Gabbard, or Sanders in the primary, and if one gets the nomination, I will vote for one of them against trump. If an establishment, corporate, banking dem is nominated, I will vote 3rd party.

I have come down on the side of trump at times, only because I perceive that all of this is politically driven, and mostly BS, that only divides us even more, in a most nefarious manner. I see nothing but dishonest dirty tricks coming from the dems and it would bother me just as much if it was the GOP doing it to an democratic president. It is a matter of principle. And I see democratic voters on forums and the MSM being hypocrites, dishonest, a total lack of integrity to the point it makes me sick to my old stomach.

 

How so?

There was no Trump-Russia collusion- none. In fact there was never any collusion by any American or Russian. The entire premise of the counter-intel investigation was a fraud, and the Mueller investigation was a freaking travesty to our criminal justice system. So what they hell crimes do you think Trump committed?

 

Good clip with Greenwald. He was blacked out of MSM, for the last two years because lacking journalistic standards, they did not want any other side of the story being told, which Greenwald would have done. Greenwald despises trump, but believes in journalistic standards, or, he is a genuine journalist instead of being a purveyor of partisan or State propaganda, in order to attempt to tell americans WHAT to think.

When a lefty, who hates trump, is blacked out in MSM, because his journalism contradicts those of MSM, well, something is quite obvious here, and yet you hear no outcries from the partisan democrats, which should also tell us something quite obvious. And that is what pisses me off. A sanders voter, who is an independent ever since the DP moved right in the 90s and the GOP went far right. I stopped being a dem once my old party turned their backs on working and middle class americans and stopped representing them.

 

Read the forum rules!!!!! And stop wasting our time.

 

What rule? How about you read them!
Quit deflecting

 

Sorry about the SC mix. Good luck with impeaching anybody.

 

I grew up in a democrat household my grandpa was a union member from 47-84 hardcore democrat and I’m not a fan of Trump but the level of criminal Dems have become and their ability to gaslight the public makes me rather vote Trump warts and all than most of the democrats. Glen is spot on how democrats are gaslighting trying to conflate the alleged collusion with obstruction. Them saying it was never about collusion is just blatant gaslighting imo

 

The Constitution doesn't specify what the outcome has to be. It only says that if a President has committed High Crimes and Misdemeanors, the Congress has the duty to impeach. Regardless of how the Senate votes, and whatever evidence there is, we need the American people to see it and evaluate it. If they consider that it's political and that Trump is a "victim", they should re-elect Trump, and power to him. If they decide that Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors, then they can go to the ballot box with the accurate information to decide.

I see. So you are an ideologue. Ideologues gave us Trump. And I do mean ideologues from both sides. And they will give us many Trump-like Presidents in the future.

To me it's frustrating, because I don't think they are conscious of the grave damage that they do.

I am not an ideologue. I have my basic ideology. But I believe that all ideologies have something to contribute. From Capitalism to Socialism. Libertarians, conservatives, progressives,... all have ideas that are of use depending on the circumstances. And no ideology will ever solve all our problems. We live in an imperfect world. Between ideologues on the right, who live and breathe corporate interest, to ideologues on the left who live and breath the anti-establishment and the anti-corporate creed. Neither will ever prevail for long. Because it's the particular circumstances of the moment that rule what needs to be done... not ideology. And what needs to be done might come from any ideology in the spectrum. We need to identify what is the best alternative. Not which is the one that aligns with my ideology.

The only thing that divides us are ideologues.... from both sides....