Trump finally understands how to treat this sham. And the sham on the Republic it is and will be.

Of course we independents view this in the fashion that it should be viewed. That's because independents care more about the country than a political score to settle, or a vendetta. I'm not going to equate my views as an independent with all other views, but I'm sure I'm not the only one worried about the political disgrace of a mock trial befalling the US Senate. We thought we were over this, after the Salem Witch hunts.

Salem wasn't just about whether or not they were 'guilty' of being witches, but rather that the trial was fundamentally meaningless just like this stupidity is. All that'll come from this, is that the disgrace of a trial will be a matter of the 2022 mid terms but the question won't be "did you or did you not vote for conviction", it will be "did you vote for that nonsense to happen at all."

45 Senators are effectively safe, the other 55 senators have to get out of their bubble of 'justice' to realize what they did was basically throw a mud ball at the US Senate, not Trump.

 

Thanks for proving that Fact can pack a more powerful punch, even, than partisan Fabrications!
Well done.

 

Such wasn't proven at all, hell you still hadn't responded to my post. Bring back better just means that one side gets to do Trumpy things while pretending they're not the same.

 

Trumpy things? Seriously? That's your argument?

 

You may be confused, or else I find your post confusing. What you quoted from me was my reply to:

Which was his reply to:

Where in my, or either of the other two posts, do you see the words,
"Bring back better?" Nor had I used those words in my prior reply, to you. While I have a general idea of what point you are trying to make, I fail to see how it, in ANY way, applies to my post, which you quoted. If you see a connection, I must ask you to be a tad less enigmatic in expressing your meaning, if you wish for me to understand it.

 

I just want to know what Trumpy things are.

 

We're hearing from news guests to suggest to use drones on American citizens, we have this mock trial on which the thread starter is based. Can you imagine if Trump won and held a political trial of Joe Biden? That is exactly what independents voted against. And we got it anyway.

So yeah, Trumpie things.

 

Mock trials and drones are trumpy things. Well, that's much better.

The trial starts Tuesday. Are you going to watch it?

 

I might see snippets of it, just to see if it becomes the absolute hilarity show that I expect it to be. But I've actually been cut off the TV for a while now, best decision I've ever made.

 

You're right

Due to Trumps performance

In 2018 Dems took the House

In 2020 Dems took the Presidency and Senate

For a 1 Term President ............. Americans has spoken

Just the Facts

 

The only hilarity will be coming from Trump and his sycophants. The rest of the world takes it seriously

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure the rest of the world mutably laughs and then ignores it. America's decline to a mock trial, is not some revelation to them, but rather a common denominator of our downfall. At this point, to them "water is wet"

We're no longer the world's superpower and we might not even be a first world power in 20 years.

 

We suck.

You're wrong.

 

I also had trouble discerning what you meant.

So....how on earth do you surmise "the government doesn't give a tinkers damn about individual excellence"?

What a pathetic assertion. The government spends money on education to promote just that - individual excellence.

The fact the government doesn't do a very good job of it is BECAUSE the government is hamstrung by your delusional "sovereignty of the individual" ideology, and the economic orthodoxy that follows it.

Meanwhile the nation has the resources to maximize everyone's potential - and to guarantee contribution to the nation's sustainable development by all.

(link):

The Case for a Job Guarantee | Wiley

"One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false.
In this book, leading expert Pavlina R. Tcherneva challenges us to imagine a world where the phantom of unemployment is banished and anyone who seeks decent, living-wage work can find it - guaranteed".

As for the the "golden age" of US capitalism (1946- 60's), the US was both the world's largest creditor nation and the world's factory.

But now the whole thing is in turmoil (with political hyper-partisanship) since China has usurped that position...via "socialism with Chinese characteristics".

{link):

The American Dream Is Alive and Well—in China | WEB OF DEBT BLOG (ellenbrown.com)

Time to rethink that delusional "sovereignty of the individual" thing...toward community cohesion and well-being.

 

The European press tends to see it differently. It is as if the Europeans have been holding their breath, waiting for the Trump to be voted out of office. I think that a guilty verdict at the impeachment trial would do much to restore foreign confidence in the American system. Do you not remember the time the UN laughed at the Trump? Have you not seen those videos, where foreign leaders are making fun of the Trump.

 

Had I taken your reply to be serious, namely, that your primary concerns about the Senate holding a trial for Trump were that it would erode respect for that institution (hard to write that w/ a straight face) and would be harmful to a future, criminal prosecution of Trump, and I accepted that a Federal DOJ indictment over the January 6th incident was a reasonable possibility, I might be amenable to your case. But I don't think either of us expects that will, or would, ever happen; I pointed out, in your previous post, your stating that you didn't believe any provable crime had occurred. So I took your response, if you don't mind my being frank, as just making excuses on Trump's behalf-- what I took you, in truth, to be advocating, was that our disgraced ex-president should never face any public reckoning for his actions.

Even if it is only a non-criminal trial, and one that Trump seems certain to win, this grand plan of his to hold onto power in the event of a losing electoral vote total, is nothing that can just be ignored, as so much water under the bridge. If nothing else, it must be shown clearly for what it was (to as many who are willing to consider it), & established that, at least, the Democratic Party has no tolerance for sedition.

 

There's no point in our hashing things out anymore. On one hand you want to call it insurrection or sedition and on the other hand, you express doubts on the 'reasonable possibility' of the DOJ prosecuting the case, just so the political theater can take its place. The real gist of the reasoning is simple: You know that I'm correct that the US Senate is now a farce. Mock trials are beneath the US and just as bad as what happened on the 6th. Any arguments you make, are the equivalent to what you think my arguments are. It's pointless. I won't consider it anything but a farce.

 

The first impeachment trial was a mock trial. This one will have witnesses. 100 of them.

It's not a mock trial. It's very real. You can think what you want, but that doesn't change the fact.

 

It can have a million witnesses, the fact is this trial lacks merit. So both of them are mock trials.

 

Just for the record, I realized it was pointless to continue the conversation first; I only responded because of your post:

So, I was being polite. But you, for some reason, are acting like you don't realize that bringing criminal charges against the newly-vacated president, by the new president's DOJ team, would have serious ramifications, as far as dividing the nation, and as far as setting a precedent that could then evolve into standard practice.

It is clear that Biden just wants to get past this. There is no way that all those who are enraged by this-- citizens & politicians, both-- are going to just drop it. The quickest way through to the other side, therefore, runs straight through a Senate trial (like it or not).

I am only calling it like I see it.

 

How does it lack merit?

 

Trump is not President any longer, so he's not fit to 'stand trial' in this impeachment proceedings. He's a private citizen, who should in the perfect world be prosecuted if a prosecutable case exists. This is turning impeachment on its head, and it turns the US Senate into a kangaroo court, and it's just utterly laughable.

And when the democrats note that they don't have any votes whatsoever from Republicans(who don't want to establish this faulty premise), what's the point other than making the Senate look bad? The ignorant Senators themselves either don't know or don't care since when their term's up, who cares what becomes of the Senate's reputation?

 

It's a process. A political process requiring a vote of the Senate. My Senators represent me. The trial is for me.

He's a private citizen because Mitch allowed him to be a private citizen. Mitch isn't my Senator.

We can't allow elected officials to escape justice by running out the clock. Your line of reasoning would logically include forgiveness of any crime committed in the last week of a term. That's unacceptable.

There have only been 4 impeachments, and the vote was known before all of them. Impeachments require a trial. If the Founders wanted a canvass of Senate votes, they would have specified such.

 

If the Founders wanted a political dog and pony show(and you admit to it being a dog and pony show), they would have specified such. They intended for it to be a serious consequence to wrongdoing. Well, not so much anymore huh?

 

Alrighty then. You got nothing. Thank you for your support. No, I admitted nothing.