UK - Longer sentence for killing transgender than a normal person

Absolutely - we need sentence enhancement for killers who think bad thoughts.

 

It should be the tradition and culture of all Americans to despise the whole island of Great Britain and everything it stands for.

 

Collectivism at it's finest. Governments don't see people as individuals. They have no respect for the individual. They only see people as groups, which inevitably justifies the actions it takes in favor of the groups. And ultimately, actions it takes against groups. In both cases, the individual is stampeded on.

 

The LIEberrhoidals will ALWAYS find an excuse, no matter how bizarre, to justify a LIEberrhoidal position.

You can take that to the bank.

 

Typical: Queers get privileged treatment because of the Lamebrain Press creating PC Crap.

 

Queers, i.e., the abnormals, will keep howling and yowling for special privileges.

The sooner we realize their CRAP the better it is for everyone ...... not for that trash, of course.

 

I'm very much a supporter of gay rights. I support gay marriage and gays being allowed in the military.

I'm also not religious at all, so I don't view being gay as being "immoral."

However... I disagree with the analogies you're using here.

The reason why you get a longer sentence for killing a cop is because he/she is a figure of authority.

The reason you get a longer sentence for killing a child is because society has a vested interest in protecting children.

While I agree that not every murder is the same, there is no logical reason to make someone stay longer in prison because of a prejudice. That's basically adding a thought crime to a murder sentence.

As repugnant as racism and other prejudices can be, it's even more repugnant to have the government engage in prosecuting points of view.

No truly free country can stomach that in the long term.

All that should matter when someone kills a transgender person is whether it was an accident, a crime of passion, or premeditated. Whether or not they're a bigot shouldn't play into it.

Some Americans share that view, but I would wager that a smaller portion of our population agrees with you than the portion in the U.K.

Initially, hate crime legislation was understandable because of the racist environment that segregation caused. It took time for things to change.

Nowadays, the world is different. Racism still exists, and so do several other prejudices, but there are other laws in place that properly handle issues of equality -- like equal opportunity regulations in employment.

Punishing a murderer more for being a bigot isn't something that promotes equality.

As annoying as the bigots can be, they can't be punished more just for holding an asinine and abhorrent perspective.

 

Why isn't there a category for whites or catholics or straights.? Everyone can say they are in a special group but you liberals say only certain groups get the special treatment. That's bigotry.

 

"you liberals" is a particularly babyish way to conduct a discussion. Pathetic really. If someone kills someone just for being a Catholic this would be a hate crime. The point has been explained. It's about motive. Think about it.

 

Grunt...

Gaybashers are nearly always homosexuals in denial. Their anger comes from their inability to handle their own sexual identity. Why else would they care. Heterosexuals who are completely at ease with their sexuality, like me, have no problems with gay people. Why should I care? The only people who care are the ones who repress their own homosexual urges.

Come out. All my gay friends who have done so changed for the better. They live fulfilled lives, many with long term partners, children, and happy homes. They are a positive contrast to the stunted homophobic trolls who grunt abuse and hatred to hide behind their own feelings of sexual inadequacy.

 

Can you back that up?

I would certainly object to such laws.

 

You mean Magna Carta. Trial by Jury. Abhorrence of Slavery. Elected Representation. Common Law. The English Language. Culture (Shakespeare, Milton...). Stock market Capitalism....?

All things which Americans took from Britain.

America is a European Project, based on the ideas of European (and especially British) Radicals. Only American Tories, still powerful in the midst of America, can't fathom that.

 

Yours is a different argument from the one I was refuting, which was that all murders are the same. Your argument is much, much stronger than that claptrap. Killing a policeman is not the same as a hateccrime but it does emonstrate that not all murders are the same, flatly destroying most of the gibberish muttered by the gaybashers on here.

I think society is entitled to take a view on how abhorrent a crime is. If hatred of what someone is is the main motive for a crime then I belive society is entitled to punish that crime differently. Similarly crimes of passion (like killing your partner's lover) where motive is more "understood" often results in lesser sentences. A father killing the abuser of his child is also someone whose motivation is taken into account when setting a sentence. I don't think a racist should get longer sentences. I think crimes carried out for racial motives alone should get longer sentences. And so does society in general, utterly horrified for example at the murder of Stephen Lawrence by vile racist thugs, just because he was black and for no other reason.

And in the USA juries decide on the death penalty by looking at motivation amongst other things. The principle is clearly established. The homophobes aren't questioning this. They are just venting their filthy hatred on this thread.

 

Why is it that I can only hate a person if they're a heterosexual white Christian male?

But seriously, punishment for murder should be the same no matter who is killed or why. Life in prison, or death.

 

Its not entirely about the crime. You have to consider intent, too. That is always taken into account. People who plan a crime are generally given higher sentences than those who don't.

 

I can sympathize with your reasoning, but the problem I've seen in practice is that both prosecutors and juries don't evenly apply this here.

It's pretty clear that a violent crime committed against a white male specifically because of his gender or race isn't regarded as seriously as the same for a violent crime against a minority.

This is why I'd prefer not to complicate the process by continuing to have race or gender based motives attached to sentencing.

If the public and authorities were more consistent, then I would be more inclined to support it.

 

On the other hand, if you just run them over with a car, it's likely to only get you a £200 fine.

 

Yes... you nailed it! They think that "filthy hatred" is well-covered or wrapped in some intellectual package; yet the characteristics of their homophobia are typically obvious.

 

Huh?! WHO claimed that was the case?

In the REAL world (where murder and other crimes are concerned) motives, methods and effects (upon individuals and society) matter. In a more perfect or perhaps uniform reality (inside of some other "Matrix"), a "crime" would simply be a "crime" (just as you suggest).