Well, it's finally happened, Justice Dept handed down Seditious Conspiracy indictments

A statement of fact. Brevity is the soul of wit.

 

I disagree ... how soon we forget they were attempting to subvert the constitution and the peaceful handover of power gained by the republicans (and in this case, legally supported) process in 2016. And it never stopped from then on...578 riots were just last summer... how many were there before 2020...

You are a terrorist when they make/say you are a terrorist... It is a simple label they can stick on you and the whole narrative changes... proof or not...

November is another, dark, dark day for our Democracy. It was the 2016 riots instigated by terrorist anarchists?

trump election victory 2016
Protests across US after Donald Trump elected president

 

The best of the lot is likely Duckduckgo especially if you crave online privacy. There is also firefox and wave browser. Which you can get at civfanatics forum.

The problem sir is that google is the biggest and best known. And probably used by eighty percent of the us and a large portion of the rest of the world.

 

Anyone with critical thinking skills can easily see this whataboutism as a Total False Equivalency and there is no reason to even try to explain the lack of equivalence. It's simply obvious.

 

Yea the 2016 riots in many major cities were worse… thanks for the help.

 

Keep trying with the BS spin, it can't pass the smell test.

 

But it passes the truth test just fine.

 

Who knows wh ... you know I got that far and realized the answer to your question is:

Think; tRump doesn't "think".

 

"You can't handle the truth"

 

So wrong.

 

I put it at about 5 -10%. I'm surprised you don't hold Trump 100% responsible. (Why not?)

I have a friend much more conservative than I, and he'd put it at about 20%. All of us find the pre-riot rhetoric reckless, and the riot itself 100% inexcusable.

I am worried about the insinuation in all these Trump-hater threads that everyone who isn't a Democrat thinks Trump is an angel, a genius, and free of all responsibility for January 6. We aren't.

More worrisome is the conflation of Trump voters with Jan 6 rioters. It's as ridiculous as conflating BLM and Antifa with supporters of Bernie Sanders.

Most worrisome is the "we don't need no stinkin' trial" mentality overtaking this country. All the rioters,every one of them, are innocent until proven guilty. As is Trump.

I should perhaps start a separate and corrollary thread about the responsibility of liberal Democrats for Antifa rioting, but I do believe that you will hear more unequivocal condemnation of the Jan 6 riots by Republicans than you will hear unequivocal condemnation, by Democrats, of post George Floyd riots.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news...oyd-riots-to-tiananmen-square-massacre-630412

By early June, at least 200 American cities had imposed curfews, while more than 30 states and Washington, D.C, had activated over 62,000 National Guard personnel in response to unrest.[38][39][40] By the end of June, at least 14,000 people had been arrested at protests.[41][42][43] According to a September 2020 estimate, arson, vandalism and looting caused about $1–2 billion in insured damage between May 26 and June 8, making this initial phase of the George Floyd protests the civil disorder event with the highest recorded damage in United States history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020–2022_United_States_racial_unrest




I say above that conflation of Trump and those who voted for him worries me. On second thought, It actually should worry Democrats more. You are overplaying your hand and Independents see through it.

Now, as to "to what degree should Trump be held responsible,"if you mean politically, 100%. Meaning only that it's fair to refuse to vote for him if you believe he had the slightest responsibility. If you mean criminally, I say zero.

 

Who on the left here is going to keep an open mind until the trial concludes? You're ready to imprison Trump and he hasn't even been indicted yet (and $10.00 says he won't be, not for Jan. 6 anyway; a tax fraud case out of NY State may or may not be imminent. Those are political indictments, of course, plus I don't know what he did or didn't do in that regard.)

 

From your link:

The three indictments collectively charge all 19 defendants with corruptly obstructing an official proceeding. Eighteen of the 19 defendants – the exception is Walden – are charged with conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiring to prevent an officer of the United States from discharging a duty.

Quite different from the over-heated, hysterical claims of "coup" and "treason" by many here and practically everyone in the media competing for clicks and advertising revenue:


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/five-ways-donald-trump-tried-coup/620157/

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/politics/what-matters-trump-doj-coup/index.html

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/11/capitol-riot-self-coup-trump-fiona-hill-457549

 

Was Trump calling for sedition or "vehement passion"?

 

It isn't "interesting" if you know federal law. Individuals are routinely charged by the federal government with conspiring to commit offenses that never happened. In most cases, an "overt act" is required by statute, but that just means taking a step in the wrong direction, like getting in your car to drive to the ammo store in preparation for a bank robbery, or telling a flunky to get in his car to go buy the ammo.

The DOJ is hoping that one of the defendants will flip and implicate Trump. And that may happen, naturally. The question for the grand jury then will be, will a statement like, "When I heard Trump saying 'go down to the Capitol,' I took that to be a message from God instructing me beyond reasonable doubt that I was supposed to break in to the capitol and 'stop the steal.'" be enough to charge Trump? Or is the guy responsible for his own actions? Did he read too much into Triump's speech?

We already have one lamebrain in Dallas that has put out that defense, though he will be pleading guilty and only asking the judge to take that "fact" into consideration at sentencing. He is making a big mistake. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.

 

And you have no idea what the truth is...

 

deleted

 

The purpose of a trial with judge and jury is to ascertain the truth is.

The purpose of the Pelosi witch hunt is to circumvent the Democratic process.

 

I misread your post. My apologies.

 

Come ON bro you HAVE to know your position doesn’t make sense.

 

How about an attack on the WH or the SCOTUS.

Most on the left claimed charges of insurrection and still to this day try and promote it as insurrection. (Including you)
Insurrection REQUIRES an attempt to take control of the government by force. Which is what the left has been trying to sell for over a year now. But most Americans knew up front that a few hundred rioters with flag poles had no ability or desire to take down the Capital, fight off the US military, take control of the government, and install a new leader. Since that fairy tale got put to bed, and there were no charges of insurrection with most charges of trespassing, now its on to Sedition for the next round.

But you have the very same problem you had with the Russia hoax. The FBI already knows what happened. They know all the players, they know how many players, and they have all the data from post of individuals involved and what there plan was.

The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. Beginning in late December 2020, via encrypted and private communications applications, Rhodes and various co-conspirators coordinated and planned to travel to Washington, D.C., on or around Jan. 6, 2021, the date of the certification of the electoral college vote, the indictment alleges. Rhodes and several co-conspirators made plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation.

So that would mean that this was not in any way part of Trumps speech that started the riots. This was planned a month in advance. Glad we were able to put that fairy tale to bed.

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

Well, like every other indictment, they will have to make EVERY claim in the indictment to get a conviction. If you just make 90% of an indictment, it fails.
So my guess would be, since they didn't have all of this equipment, and they didn't find a stash of transported firearms, ammunition, and tactical gear transported to DC in an effort to combat the Capital police and US military to support this theory, it appears it fails up front.

 

Popscott wrote:
how soon we forget they were attempting to subvert the constitution and the peaceful handover of power gained by the republicans (in this case legally supported).

Legally supported? When and by whom was it legally supported?

 

It makes perfect sense, Benedict Donald is well know for not thinking through his actions and having to lie about them afterward.

(not your "bro")

 

Who suggested they wouldn't get any heat?

 

And Jan 6th was no different. Mostly peaceful protesters with a few rioters mixed in. Glad you understand the big lie that there was some kind of insurrection.