Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?

And that is probably true. And nothing new.

After all, look at what happened to Europe when diseases from the "more highly civilized" (and certainly denser population wise) region of China made their way there.

Bubonic plague, Septicemic plague, Black Death, Pneumotic plague, the Great Plague, the list simply goes on and on. Civilizations that are densely packed tend to both create new germs, as well as build up immunities among their own population. So when they come in contact with a less dense and more agrarian culture, the diseases which are not a major deal are deadly to those who were never exposed to them.

So by the same token that some hold Europeans guilty for the plagues that killed the Indians, maybe those from Europe should hold China guilty for it's own plagues which wiped out from 60-80% of it's population.

 

nope, it was European merchants who brought the plague to Europe from asia.

 

Errrr, what?

Actually, it was primarily done by Indians. They would take the goods from China to Arabia. Then it was shipped to the final destination.

But I would have to give this to you, since Arabia is on the continent of Asia. But Europeans did not go to China until much later.

 

oops!!

Many Europeans were known to have been in Medieval China during the second half of the 13th century and the first half of the 14th century (from 1246 to around 1350), during the rule of the Mongol Empire which conquered and ruled over a large part of Eurasia and connected Europe with their Chinese dominion of the Yuan Dynasty. The Europeans were essentially located in eastern Central Asia, as far as the Mongol capital of Karakorum. As contacts however, European missionaries and merchants began to travel far and wide in the Mongol realm under the ‘’Pax Mongolica’’. It is thought that thousands of them lived in medieval China under Mongol rule.[3][1] One of the most famous Europeans who visited China during this period was Marco Polo.

The first recorded appearance of the plague in Europe was at Messina, Sicily in October of 1347. It arrived on trading ships that very likely came from the Black Sea, past Constantinople and through the Mediterranean. This was a fairly standard trade route that brought to European customers such items as silks and porcelain, which were carried overland to the Black Sea from as far away as China.

 

On that note Injeun, I am curious what your opinion might be on the idea that a Creator may well have amazing plans for the Gay community?


http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...essage-gods-has-many-plans-gay-community.html

 

there is no blame for unintentional spreading of infectious disease, the chinese never instigated a biological war of genocide against euorpeans, the point of the OP were there deliberate genocidal policies carried out in the americas...was there was intentional introduction of infectious disease? the knowledge on how to do this was certainly known and historical evidence supports that it was carried out...indiscriminate biological warfare against a targeted group meets the required definition for genocide...

 

It was a perfect example of the survival of the fittest. And I don't obediently buy the White-haters' explanation of White resistance to New World diseases being tied to the fact that they domesticated animals rather than to their physical and mental superiority. Netties always pompously throw these authorized spins out and imply "That settles that." And even if it is true, it just confirms the fact that Whites had a superior survival instinct that subconsciously told them domestication would increase their resistance to unfamiliar microbes.

European nations built up their societies after wars. The Indian were unproductive nomads, who had to constantly kill other Indians in order to limit the population because they were incompetent in developing natural resources. Manhattan Island was actually worth only $24 to such an unfit sub-species. But the White-haters slant the interpretation of every fact to make the fittest look evil. Intellectual authorities take advantage of their unearned positions of influence to trick people into never objecting to their spin on a fact like that. Proof is that no one here has ever heard it explained my way; therefore, they can dismiss anything that is not linked to the recognized intellectual authorities. Originality is a cardinal sin on the Internet.

 

If paranormal hallucinations whisper to whackos that they should hate White people, that proves that sane people should love White people. If these loonies loll around the Rainbow Campfire drooling googoo-eyed as they blubber out "Kumbaya, My Lord, Kumbaya," the White ones will be used for marshmallows.

 

Seventy-two virgin altar boys? One way to beat the offer Allah makes.

 

"subconscious instinct"! do you make this stuff up as you go along? natives of the americas have a long history of domestication...where it didn't occur had nothing to do with instinct and a lot to do with not having a suitable livestock to domesticate...

hmmm not a student of your own history, nomads were very much in the minority in the americas, the north eastern communities Six Nations were farmers, the Ohio and Mississippi river valley culture systems had urban centers with populations as high as 20-30K, from the great lakes to the gulf were farmers, the Natives of the SW were farmers, those on the west coast were farmers and fisherman not nomads, central and south american natives had numerous farming cultures and cities....they were efficient exploiters of the environment with a continental trading system...killing each other otherwise known as warfare was no different than what was practiced by Europeans at the time competing over land/resources...native wars pale in comparison to the scale in which europeans waged war...

explained your way? made up facts based on nothing but your lack of education on the topic...

the cardinal sin here is you have the sum knowledge of the world at your fingertips yet you choose to ignore it to spout personal ignorance and hate

 

Same can be said of fire arrows, hatchets, and BS.

 

I hate to burst your white bubble but its basic biology 101. If you live in close quarters with someone you increase you risk of being exposed to a virus. If you increase your population size that is another factor that increases risk of exposure. Add domesticated animals where viruses can mutate and infect people as well ala AIDS and the H1N1 virus among others and you further increase the risk of exposure. Add all of them together and at some point you are going to be exposes to many many germs and viruses. The Chinese had the bubonic plague first and then they gave it to the Arabs who gave it to the Europeans causing massive depopulation in both the Middle East and Europe.

 

I'd suggest you look up the legal definition of genocide as the UN and YOUR government define it ...but I suspect you'd be wasting your time as you have after many pages into this thread still don't comprehend it regardless how many times it's been explained...

 

and the chinese, arabs, europeans still don't have a resistance to plague, hiv, smallpox, polio, TB or influenza they kill as now as they always have...well at least smallpox is now eradicated...

 

I had to take one of my nieces for her vaccines when she was little and I remember the doc saying that no vaccine is permanent. They only protect you for so many years and then you become vulnerable to the virus again. That is why kids of parents who had chickenpox can still get it and why if another outbreak does occur the US will be the hardest hid because of our fetish with antibacterial this and antibacterial that. If I had kids I would make them lick the counter tops and kitchen floor and eat dirt at least once a week to toughen them up.

 

yeah...my first kid the wife made me sterilize everything before the baby touched it, I even had to scrub up before picking the kid up...now an adult she has all sorts of nasty allergies...with my youngest we followed the "5 second" rule when food hits the floor for less than 5s it's still edible, he's never sick no allergies... the two kids in between have less severe allergy problems which reflected less strict hygienic standards...it's all anecdotal evidence but it reflects scientific studies that show immune systems need to stimulated in childhood...


that reminds me I'm due for my 10 year tetanus update

 

Your sought out definition of genocide is irrelevant in light of the fact that there was no genocide against native tribes in general. Wars, yes. Death yes, on both sides. But genocide?...nonsense! You need to read the thread rather than peddle your infected agenda amongst forum members.

 

"my" sought out definition? the internationally recognized standard of genocide or the result of your inability to understand the written word....seriously, you need an education, you have nothing to offer on this thread other than childish ignorance...

 

FYI this topic is about genocide and native American tribes of 2-3 centuries ago, some of whom warred against Europeans and white Americans. It's not about some modern UN lawyers definition of genocide so as to lay the groundwork for legal embargos or what have you against this or that third world nation. The actual goings on in our nation near the time of our birth are sufficient to make judgments on the topic. But for some reason you leap the oceans for a modern definition of what genocide really is. It's silly really. ....and senseless.

 

and what was the topic of this thread???

Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?

you display a serious lack of reading comprehension...

 

Championing these missing links in your snooty, arrogant way makes you high-and-mighty lowlife. With the White-hating fantasy you invent for these low-IQ savages, they would have easily driven all the Whites back to England and Spain.

 

Which authorized-expert ventriloquists are using you for a dummy? How do you get so conceited when all you are is a wooden echo chamber?

 

The Wars of the Iroquois: A Study in Intertribal Trade Relations

You are correct about killing off the males. The ones that gave up were made slaves till they were sick or injured then just killed. The above referenced book is a very good one, I read it a long time ago as part of an American History course. Tribes went to war all the time with each other over trade and resources. When the white settlers arrived, they were welcomed at first. As their population grew with new arrivals the natives changed their minds and saw them as competing for natural resources and began attacking them in order to eliminate the resource drain.

The Wild Frontier
Written by William M. Osborn
Category: History - United States
Publisher: Random House
Format: Trade Paperback, 384 pages
Pub Date: January 2001
Price: $19.00
ISBN: 978-0-375-75856-0 (0-375-75856-9)

Another very good read.

 

So you are saying that the US conducted biological warfare upon the Indians?

Actually, 3 things come into play here.

1. It was $24 contemporary, or the equivalent of over $1,000 in today's currency.
2. Almost universally, the Indians did not have the concept of "owning land". This was common in a great many cultures, as the thought that you could own something other then what you could carry with you was completely foreign.
3. The group that the island was bought from did not even have territorial claim to the island in the first place. Peter Minuit paid a group of Metoac, who were just traveling through the area. The Metoac actually had their homes on the far side of Long Island and in Connecticut. So how "unfit" are they, when they in essence conned the "White Man"?

Most people have absolutely no concept of how tribal relations operated, both inside and outside of the tribe. And each one was different, as was their relationship with the "New Americans".

Predominantly, the natives on the West Coast and North East got along pretty good with the Europeans. These were also by and large the least nomadic and more "culturally advanced" tribal groups. These were tribes that had generally given up nomadic life, and had settled into an agrarian lifestyle.

Then you had the groups that were the most trouble, those of the South-East and Plains. Now the South East were really a mess, with the breakup of the Mississippian culture in the early 1500's. This was a long lasting and advanced grouping that covered most of the land from Florida to Texas, and north to Illinois. But this culture splintered and fragmented after the first waves of European Diseases swept through the area, and the tribes quickly turned barbaric. Essentially the survivors splintered into civil war. This was the environment that they were still in when contact with Europeans was first made.

Then you have what most consider the most civilized, the Iroquois Nations and other groupings of the North-East. This grouping was actually quite advanced, with permanent villages, trade routes, even formal governments and treaties established. While not up to the level of the Europeans technologically, they were really not all that far behind culturally. And they adapted quickly to what they learned, not something typical in truly primitive people (compare how most tribes adapted to the introduction of the horse - compared to Europeans and Asians).

 

Yes...definitely genocide...

The website quoted is merely one of sooooo many. Much of the crimes against Native Americans by Europeans are documented, by the Europeans, especially the Spanish.