Baff, how's about we wait and see what jam tomorrow...maybe....our PM is going to offer our First Minister to persuade her to allow the use Scotland's resources as a sweetener for EU concessions on Brexit. I am intrigued to see what positive, progressive arguments for Scotland remaining in the UK she can offer....AND GUARANTEE....when a positive argument for the Union was never made in the last referendum. The unfortunate thing was that we did not make good enough positive arguments for independence.....so many people opted for "safety" in the Union, thinking that otherwise the UK would shaft us, as they threatened, ad nauseam, that they would. But we got shafted anyway. I hope people remember that..
I do recognise that if you lost twice in the last two referendums that you have been doubly shafted. Once by Scotland and once by the UK. A man with no nation. What I do is start small. Begin with my own home. The Empire of Baff. And I sit here on my throne, merrily ruling over stuff. And that's where I limit my ambition. Right there.
May was up here yesterday refusing to answer questions but telling us what a magnificent Union the UK is. Meanwhile NI has no Government Scotland's Parliament has just voted for another Referendum and Article 50 will be triggered tomorrow. Oh well.......
New poll gives accurate reading of the Scottish people's views on the referendum - very different to what Westminster keeps saying. date 31st March http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/poll-devastating-blow-for-theresa-may.html
Funnily enough, most of us in Scotland think the most fascists in the UK are those living in England and Wales who voted for Brexit from some ridiculous belief in the exceptionalism of the UK, their pre-eminent position in the world, which means that everybody else in it is just gagging to accommodate the Uk's demands.... ...and because they really believed the crap produced by the media about British Jobs for British people(white British-born and bred people, of course). If Britain had people who would do the crappy work, like howking tatties or picking fruit or working in the private care sector etc..we wouldn't need people to come in and do it for us.....because there wouldn't be any crappy jobs going, would there... ...and because they really believed we'd have £350 million a day to invest in the NHS, without considering that without the foreign workers, there wouldn't be enough people prepared to work in the NHS. If there was, we wouldn't need foreign workers at all, would we... .and because they really believed that England/the UK ,having shafted the Commonwealth countries first by enslaving or killing them, and plundering their resources while building an empire, then getting rich at their expense while continuing to plunder their resources...and then dropping our trade with them like a hot brick when we got to join the EU, would simply have to say to those Commonwealth countries ...bend over...we're back...and we intend to shaft you again on our terms. . Fascists don't really do critical or forward thinking...as illustrated by our current Tory government.. And anyway...how is your post any kind of rational response to a post which states that the poll for the SNP contradicts all the spin on polls from the Unionist Media? The referendum WILL happen, unless May has taken a rush of commonsense to what passes for her brain....and comes up with a Brexit which puts it off for a while. We certainly hope we will have better luck next time....around the end of 2018/beginning of 2019, all things Brexit going as expected. You are, I assume aware that permission is only required to hold a "legal according to Westminster rules" referendum...and not to hold a referendum. And you are I assume aware that a consultative referendum on a clearly worded question short of "Should Scotland be an independent country" but meaning the same would be possible...and I suspect that Westminster could not ignore the wishes of the majority of Scots, in the case that the vote was to leave the UK(however it was expressed), and still claim to be a democracy, even the flawed version of democracy which has, over the centuries, brought us to this pass.
Indeed...it looks like there is understanding beginning from south of the border http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2017/04/the-british-medias-progressives-are-coming-round-to-scottish-independence/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheEdinburghReporter+(The+Edinburgh+Reporter) From what I have been reading the only reason there is belief that there is a 'legal' need to get Westminster's agreement is because Salmond chose to go this route last time. There was a time when Thatcher stated that all that was required was for Scotland to return over half of her MP's as SNP ones. We well overdid that.
Salmond wanted to do it all in a way which couldn't be gone back on if we won (given Westminster has form for not taking any notice of Scotland's voice)....and only Westminster can authorise a binding referendum. Problem with the 56 MPs was that it wasn't on the manifesto.....if it had been, we'd be discussing divorce proceedings now, not still trying to open the door....although we'd likely not have had as many as 56 MPs if it had been on the manifesto. I don't think a FPTP election can be taken as any guide to the wishes of the majority of an electorate anyway, unless they also get more than half the votes cast. A referendum is more democratic.
maybe you should read something more up to date? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...act_alterations_to_legislative_competence.pdf Ms Sturgeon doesn't have the power to call a legally binding referendum. She could, of course, waste resources on calling an unofficial one, which she'll probably do instead of getting on with governing the country. You know, sorting out the problems with the health and justice system and schools etc.
Yes, I can see that. Was not Cameron goading him to call one anyway, imagining it would end the idea of Independence for ever...I think May was doing the same to Nicola before she did and May decided we were a Colony not a Country forming part of a Union. Oh I wasn't suggesting it be used now. The SNP made quite clear that a vote for them at Westminster was not a vote for Independence - I was just saying that by what was considered necessary some time ago we had well surpassed it.
I don't believe it is as cut and dried as that. As I said before the statement was that when Scotland voted into Westminster over half of her MP's as SNP's that would be Scotland voting to leave the Union. Salmond going through the process in 2012 does appear to confirm what you say but from what I hear this is in no way definite. Theresa May however was not trying to pull that line. She knows full well the effect such a position is likely to cause due to it making Scotland a Colony of England and refusing democracy. Because of this she tried to pull that the Scottish people were not interested in a Referendum. The Scottish people have now shown that this is not true in their latest poll which I wrote about at the end of the previous page but as a reminder. https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/the-spanish-word-for-schadenfreude/ Bus stop in Edinburgh
Nobody ever said she did have that power. Do you actually read posts? But she doesn't NEED a legally binding referendum.....she just needs a properly constituted and run referendum. After that, if it is a YES, and is ignored by Westminster, we just declare independence anyway. We will have, after all, all the requirements set out in the Montevideo Conference to become independent after a referendum.....and can set out to gain recognition and join the UN...just like any other newly independent country. I assume you also think Theresa May is sweating over a hot desk personally running the country and not even thinking about Brext...and if you do, you have little idea of how Governments are run. We have less problems with health(in particular), education and justice than you have in England. And for someone who isn't running the country, 22 Acts have been debated and passed in the last year and a number are going through the process, though given the way the Scottish legislative process works (a process set up by Labour in Westminster specially for devolution, btw) you can't really base how much work is being done by the number of Acts actually getting as far as Royal assent in a single year. Everything in the world doesn't work in the same way as Westminster does, you know.
The SNP doesn't speak for most of Scotland. Sorry. It only speakers for Lesser Scotland. Greater Scotland probably thinks they are fascists too. Which is why they voted for Westminster in preference I expect. Mrs Sturgeon can hold a referendum just as you or I can. if it is seen to be legitimate it must be respected. It is not the messenger that counts, it is the message. Will she do it? Nope. She is loser and she knows it.
OK just so this is clear. Spain has confirmed they will not block Scotland joining the EU as an Independent country. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu
If by most of Scotland you mean the majority...in this instance she does. They may not all want a referendum because they want independence, they may just want a referendum to get it out of the way....but a majority thinks it should come when the terms of Brexit are known...not after Brexit has actually taken place. Which poll have you picked as definitive, out of interest?
Mrs Sturgeon will say anything to keep independence and a referendum on top of the headlines. Her career depends on it. She doesn't represent Scotland. They represented themselves in the referendum because they couldn't trust her or any other politician to do it for them. It has now been "got out of the way". Those that didn't respect the result of the last referendum cannot be expected to respect the result of the next referendum, therefore it is pointless holding any more with them. The matter5 has been settled. It's done. The poll I have picked as definitive is the Scottish Referendum.
So you are basing your opinions on a three year old referendum despite a completely changed UK and no status quo. OK!
Yes, I am basing my opinions on a well documented referendum and not your idle conjecture. Can you truly in your heart of hearts be surprised?
You are a unionist.....nothing Unionists do, say or think surprises me...they are so mired in lauding a country which in the last three hundred years has only had seventy without a war somewhere and wallowing in nostalgia for an imperial past long gone. The UK still lives as if, because they trashed most of the world, that the world owes them something...when in reality, we owe the world an apology for our large part in making it the hell-hole so much of it is today. It is funny...but I can think of a lot of reasons for rUK to want to keep hold of Scotland.....but not one single reason how being in the Union benefits us.....and, despite a two year long campaign up to 2014, no unionist managed to come up with any benefits we get from the Union that we could not do as well,or better/differently as an independent country. And that was before the UK became an English led isolationist, racist shambles.
That's because we resent that it benefits you more than it does us. We'd like rid of you. The problem is how do we get rid of you without losing the majority who are OK with us? "Scotland" don't much care what you call yourself. Call yourself the Israelites for all I care. Fight amongst yourselves. We'll join in if any unionists get hurt. Otherwise, squabble away. Me, I'm all about independence. My one and only democratic vote in my lifetime was for that. I think everyone who wants it should have it. So as long as no one needs independence from you, I'm down with it. Do whatever it is you want to do. Separate. Physically separate. Greater and lesser Scotland. Let those who wish independence have it and those who do not, not. If on the other hand your goal is not independence but instead to rule Scotland. Take your fascism with you when you leave. If your route to power is blame the English, take your racism with you too. No loss to the world.
How does the Union benefit Scotland? I asked this time after time on this forum during the last referendum, and got absolutely no response which could be shown to be something we couldn't do for ourselves, given control of our own economy etc. I suspect that the benefits of the Union for Scotland will be even more difficult to quantify now we are three years on with a lot of change for the worse in what was then the status quo.
Oh that's easy for me to answer, but impossible for me to answer to your satisfaction. You share cost of embassies. Share costs of military. In this way you get access to more embassies than you can afford to build and maintain. A larger defence force than you can provide and maintain. Economies of scale with buying. And then Scotland is top heavy for government jobs. More taxpayer funded than elsewhere. The recipient of UK aid. An extra parliament. A tax office in Scotland that could be elsewhere. A naval yard. An airstrip. A defence industry. All jobs that could be done by others. Plus your closeness to the UK and integrated tax and transport network means it's viable to land oil and gas at your facilities rather than English ones. The single market here means your export goods aren't tariffed against. The broader economy means you don't go broke like Iceland in a banking crash. Most importantly of all, the UK brings you peace. No civil war to smash up your wealth, lose all your foreign investment and your lives. No opportunity for fascists and dictators to take over. To steal your wealth from within. Claim ownership of your oil and your pay checks and your schools and anything else they like the look of. Take a close look at who you would give Scotland to. And then it's a no brainer really.
Yes but what about Scotland's trade with the UK, which with is four times its EU trade? If Scotland is part of the EU, the taxes would apply to that trade instead.
That has been dealt with a couple of times. If Scotland became Independent and joined EFTA then she would be able to set her own rate with rUK. If Scotland left and joined the EU then something similar to what is being considered between NI and the Republic would be worked out.
