What does socialism mean to you?

Yes of course it's Epicureanism. It's also 'small holder Capitalism', if you want to call it that. The point is it's shared labor/shared resources, and that is Socialism (for the people). And yes, of course it involves 'austerity'. Who said it didn't? What kind of delusional dreamer thinks socialism will provide anything BUT hard work and austerity?

 

And vice versa. The voluntary socialist is not interested in what everyone else is doing, nor even what 'the system' is doing.

 

So they're libertarians.

 

[QUOTE="crank, "What kind of delusional dreamer thinks socialism will provide anything BUT hard work and austerity?[/QUOTE]


The same kind delusional dreamer who thinks that a nation of people would live as socialists voluntarily.

 

Capitalism takes no work at all if you are wealthy...And when times get tough taxpayers will bail them out...

 

The same is true between libertarians and all types of authoritarians.

 

Now that is delusional. And precisely why I sneer at Cafe Socialists.

 

In terms of those outside the collective, yes ... absolutely.

 

Free markets do not require tax payer bailouts. In free markets, failure is just as important as is success.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand your answer.

 

Then you have discovered that the US is not a free market player..

 

Probably before you were born.

 

Possibly in the 1940's...but no...

 

There are free market niches remaining sufficient for millions of people to exploit if they so choose.

What we have now can be called 'crony-capitalism'. Crony-capitalism is capitalism for the winners and socialism for the losers.

 

Sure but it is still an economic system.

 

What is an economic?

 

Socialism allows for agression against the individual by the denial of individual rights. The denial of the individuals rights are enforced by threat of or actual violence.

 

I'd say limitation of individual rights.
What happens if you don't pay your taxes? You might go to jail: yes, that is socialism at work.
There is some degree of socialism in every organized country; a little (or a lot) more of it in some of them, a little (or a lot) less of it in others.
If you search long enough, I'm sure you could find a country where you could live without any amount of socialism preventing you to sleep at night.

 

In America, it put a man on the moon.
NASA was socialist, no?

In Britain, it means National Health Service meaning, if I need surgery, I'd get it, and have already paid through taxation, same for if I'm hospitalised, that's me getting my taxed money back to me.
It also means state pension.

 

And people, as evidenced by their demonstrated preference, did not wish to put a man on the moon. A man had to be put on the moon by those with the power to forcibly appropriate resources and do so. It obviously resulted in a net loss to those who would rather have spent their money on other things.

 

It beat the Reds didn't it?

What better thing to spend your money on when a dictatorship is trying to win technological superiority?

 

People would have preferred to spend their money on other things, so they were made worse off.

 

That's not Socialism, that's politics.

 

No it isn't. That's Capitalist surplus management.

 

Surplus management? What's that?