The essence of the Christianity I grew up with was to do to others as you would have others do to you. To promote equal rights for everyone, to help the poor, the oppressed, and people who are unable to look after themselves. For example, the church I used to attend holds fundraising events for Palestinians, and speaks out against Israel's racist policies. But this forum presents a completely different picture. Self-proclaimed Christians attempt to demonise Muslims on the basis of their religion, and promote Israel's racist policies, rather than speak out against them. These policies are incompatible with Christianity as Israel steals Palestinian land, but it would not have Palestinians steal Israeli land. Don't self-proclaimed Christians here who subscribe to these views, realise they are giving Christianity a bad name? Dusty
What happened was you grew up. There have always been disagreements out with and within any organization/religion/sim, the only way not to see them is to only hear your version of it, for example, by listening only to your own church, which is probably what you grew up with. I tend to agree more with the Palestinians than the Israeli, but that is by no means all the time. In my opinion, everyone has been told different fundamental versions of what the word "deserves" or "should" means, and there really is no way out of that. At the same time I don't agree with Israel supporters on several questions, I can see how they think to get to where they are at, and it seems to me it's based on different standards of entitlements. Those standards are probably to some extent supplied by churches or political organizations, or even politically biased teachers. Assuming that their version of deserves is correct, then the verdict goes the other way around, they're right and you're the one giving Christianity a bad name. Almost all fundamental differences are based on definitions that nobody bothered to define and people are actually talking about different things.
The Christian Israel nations of Europe spent the last 1900 years killing each other. They fell under the spell of the Pharisaical Vatican, and even the Reformation did not cleanse them completely from the doctrines of the Pharisees. The doctrines of the Pharisees are described by the Lord, Jesus Christ, as "making the Word of God of none effect." This is why Christians have been unable to establish Heaven on Earth. They believe: 1. That they are not Israel; 2. That God is not here ruling His Kingdom; 3. That He is coming some day to fix things; 4. That the doctrines of the Pharisee are to be tolerated and even embraced; 5. That anti-Christs are God's People; 6. That anti-Christs should be encouraged, financed, protected, and armed to invade Palestine and seize it as a power base.
It has nothing to do with growing up. While people and churches have disagreements, the modern Bible remains the same, as does the golden rule of doing to others what you would have others do to you. This is what the church I used to attend continues to practice, as I mentioned in the OP. It has nothing to do with meanings of words, but rather with actions. I mentioned an action in the OP, of Israel stealing land that does not belong to them, while they do not expect Palestinians to do the same to them. That goes against the golden rule in the Bible, and Christians who support that action give Christianity a bad name. Can you cite an action you think I support which would give Christianity a bad name? Dusty
What I mean is that of course Israeli friendly people have their reasons for supporting Israel too. They're not just running around being ***** on purpose. The pro Israel crowd often refer to the Bible or the Holocaust and other eras in which Jews haven't been treated very well. I can see the philosophy behind giving them land even if I don't agree with it. For a person who sees Jews and Palestinians as groups of people rather than individuals who someone slapped a label on, Jews being treated badly can equate to the rest of the world making up for that by being nice to them, while we who see them as individuals think that most Jews didn't actually go through the holocaust and the only action that actually matters is the redistribution of land. I don't think Israel supporters would support the taking of land unless they thought that the Israeli are entitled to that land, either because they think it's the Jews land to begin with (Jews having lived there are some points in the past) or because after the Jews being treated badly, they "deserve" some compensation, or, more recently, that because there have been suicide bombings against the Israeli, the Palestinians are by default bad (Americans have a complicated relationship towards suicide bombings). Assuming that a person believes those things, not supporting Israel in the name of Christianity gives Christianity a bad name to those who would support Israel.
But I'm not talking about supporting Israel. I specifically referred to the action of supporting Israel dispossessing other people of their land, where Israel would not want others to do that to them. How does the action of giving Jews someone else's land, not go against the golden rule? It's Israel that sees Jews and Palestinians as two different groups of people. I am not referring to Israel supporters, such as myself, who support Israel's right to exist within it's internationally recognised borders, just as we support any other country's right to exist within it's internationally recognised borders. I am specifically referring to those self-proclaimed Christians who support Israel's right to exist outwith it's internationally recognised borders, by dispossessing Palestinians of their land. This is usually based on a religious belief, which has it's roots in the Old Testament, but is incompatible with the teachings of Christ, and therefore Christianity, according to the Bible. Dusty
I'm less than sure why any Christian would support Israel (not the obvious greed because they're getting paid to support it as Mormon Romney is). http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...nce-after-vandals-attack-churches-holy-sites/ http://ifamericansknew.org/history/rel-christians.html So much for freedom in Israel.
The Old Testament says Israel will expand it's borders from the Euphrates to the Nile, so these self-proclaimed Christians who cherry pick parts of the OT, support Israel stealing Palestinian land on this basis. They think the land belongs to Israel anyway. Then there's the part in the OT about those who curse Israel will be cursed, and those who bless Israel will be blessed. Which again, encourages these self-proclaimed Christians who cherry pick parts of the OT, to support Israel in everything it does, and to refuse to criticise it. Then there's the demonisation of Muslims, mostly in US mainstream media, which dehumanises them. Whereas the same media sources do what they can to paint Israelis as ''people like us,'' to garner sympathy for them. We don't hear much about Christians in the West Bank, as Palestinians are generally painted as Muslims, even though more Christians live in the West Bank alone, than in the whole of Israel. We hear plenty of news about Muslims persecuting Christians all over the middle east, but practically nothing about Jews persecuting Christians in Israel. Dusty
