Any reasoning or empirical evidence to support this theory? It is a very nice belief system, i'm just looking for valid reasons to have it.
think of all of life, all the circumstances that make us busy, now it is the belief of many that god orders all, everything is working twords "his" plan...god to me is the force that helps us to be more in our everyday lives, if we accept the aspiration to enrich our lives then we accept gods help, god is or is not but I know god is ourselves. ( god may be a separate being )
I agree Religious wingnuts hold theology and claim, they have the answers already; How much more ignorant can a human being become?
..but you know that it goes both ways. Many wise & respected scientists throughout the ages have been very ignorant.. that is, 'wrong' in their 'illusion of knowledge'. It is not just a domain of the 'religious wingnuts'. For example, many leftist 'religious wingnuts' think global warming is proven science, macro evolution is a fact, etc. They take their world view, institutionalize it, call it fact, & kill or die for it. ..sounds 'wing nutty' to me..
For those who talk like God is their next door neighbor who comes to their barbecue, watches football on TV with them, and arranged for the bumblebee to splatter onto the windshield of their fast-moving car, I say they are full of wishful thinking. The God they are thinking of is an absentee landlord. The OP asks for our perspective of God based on our personal experience, not from text sources, but I experience God mostly based on what I consider to be suitable sources. My search for a more satisfactory concept of God than what was common and popular was prompted by various personal disappointments. The traditional religious viewpoint just wasn't making sense, and the Bible was too difficult to fathom from a layman's perspective. The most significant and sensible evaluation of scriptures from many sources focuses on the allegorical meanings of the contents. More than one meaning can often be inferred from the same section. The contributing sages deliberately used veiled messaging and confounding statements to trip up devious schemers who would misuse the powers conferred by deep understanding of spiritual reality. The underlying truth is consistent across several religions, but comprehension of it entails acceptance of principled concepts of abstract thought and metaphysics. In the Bible, creation and evolution are given as universal septenate processes. These are relevant to human progress as well as cosmology. The Bible declares that the process of salvation is actually one of becoming perfected. Keep in mind that a fully perfected human no longer resides in the flesh, but there is no quick jump to that hyperspace from your present lowly incarnation. Your death will get you nowhere fast if you have not started to lift yourself up. You can either go along for the ride until the ultimate cosmic dissolution occurs, or you can help your case by working on the narrow path and choosing the straight gate. Your work is cut out for you. The idea of the Goddess with the occasional cosmic PMS does not appeal to me. It’s a nifty observation of the comings and goings of mayhem, but it is too much like the theme of personal options executed by a supernatural overlord. The Trinity is comprised of the unmanifesting Godhead (“The Father”, the manifesting Spirit (“Son of God”, and the Creator Logos (“Holy Spirit”. The first two are outside the realm of human comprehension. The third one is the beginning of the dynamic between energy and consciousness. The Logos produces the lower quaternary, comprised of the mental, astral, etheric, and physical/material phases. When the Bible says that the sins of the fathers will be visited on the fifth generation, it is saying that the activities of the Logos, fifth from the bottom, will affect the bottom phase. There is no morality, sin, involved. That’s the typical trick of wordplay, but priestcaft would have you see it otherwise. For those who reach that plateau typically encountered in midlife, “Is this all there is?” the answer is no, there is much more. Some commenters here also show signs of lingering vague unrest, a feeling of incompleteness, a persistent longing, as if there is some missing factor of satisfaction. No worldly experience or material gain can give any lasting relief from this subtle dilemma. Correct knowledge of reality can alleviate this. The symptom is one of separation anxiety, separation from the source, stemming from the time eons ago when the Unlimited Spirit separated us from itself and gave us awareness of our individual existence. There is no concrete proof what I have put forth here. Skeptics can just dismiss it outright, but total reliance on solid science may not provide the kind of personal progress that is sought. The Ageless Wisdom has been laid down for thousands of years by gifted sages, some of whom possessed powers of clairvoyance that go beyond the scope of science. You can reach for it, or not; your choice.
About as ignorant as the non-religious wingnuts who profess that the religious wingnuts are wingnuts when the accusers are completely ignorant of the things known by the religious wingnut.
God is a Republican. He says one thing and expounds another. He loves us all, but, if you don't do exactly as he says you will live in the fire of hell for all eternity. All men are equal in the eyes of the Lord, unless of course you are gay or an enemy of the Jews in which case you can murder all the men over the age of 9 or enslave them keeping their women and children for slaves and concubines. God complains bitterly about the foibles of mankind but his only solution is to pray to him rather than study the problem and attempt change. Yes, God is a Republican.
Cute smear on republicans, but this is supposed to be a personal description of god, as perceived by you. What do you deduce god to be like, & why? I really don't know if there are political ramifications for this question, & i posed it purely philosophically.
?? Ok. Fine. So you didn't read the parameters of this thread, but instead come dogmatically to post an unsupported opinion? Dogmatic assertions about god are not what this is about. There are legions of threads dedicated to that. This is a philosophical exercise.. a mental exploration of possibility, using the reality around us as evidence. How have YOU processed this information, & what can YOU deduce about the universe, & especially, any conclusions about the nature of a supreme being? If that is too hard, or if you just don't want to consider this kind of 'what if' scenario, no problem. There are polemical threads dedicated to dogmatic assertions & confrontive religious stances. I had hoped here, to appeal to thinking people, who are interested in philosophical discussions.
your point? Thinking people & philosophers have debated & discussed the nature &/or existence of god for millennia. You do not have to join in, if you find the topic uninteresting.
Judging by his deeds, God is a petulant demiurge who enslaved our free spirits into his physical world for his sadistic amusements. For further readings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge Moi I am too clairvoyant to be an atheist.
I've always wondered why people inquire about God or gods when we haven't any idea what we are, why we are, or where we are. Our most powerful astrophysical instruments see only so far. What lies beyond that frontier? The known universe will expand indefinitely, so the most recent science tells us. Gravity is not strong enough to make the remnants of the Big Bang ever fall back together. That means our known universe is getting less and less dense, more and more spread out all the time. Our galaxy will eventually be alone. We'll be part of something we can't even see. What is matter? We know about atoms and sub-atomic particles, but when the smallest and most elemental particle is reached and someone asks what it's made of, what will the answer be? What is energy made of? Life as we know it is clearly an aberration. Most of the universe is made of so-called "dark matter," which emits no energy and can be known only by inference. So is there some grand purpose for life, as we like to suppose, or is life a glitch in the universal computer? What came before the Big Bang? So having no idea what I am, why I am, or where I am, it seems presumptuous for me to be asking God what He is, why He is, and where He is. Am I the only one perplexed by people telling one another what God is? By the fact that most religions are systems to either placate God or give God orders? Are we not told that if we perform the correct rites in the correct ways we can influence what God does? Are we not told that God is a sucker for flattery, that if we praise him in the most fulsome terms, he will smile on us and let us win at bingo? Are we not told that man is made in God's image, which sounds like another way of saying God is made in man's? If God is the essential organizing principle of the universe, the theorem with which we must all be in accord, why assume that God has a humanoid form or consciousness at all, that we can chat with him like someone on the checkout line at the supermarket? Why assume that God has a personality and exercises choice? Humans make choices because they are ignorant. Lacking the knowledge or ability to fully see the consequences of our actions, we're continually forced to choose among possibilities. But if we knew all, as God presumably does, then every action has a compelling logic and is necessary. So God doesn't make choices. He acts as he must. Such a being has no need of emotion, which humans use to inform their choices, nor does such a being have a personality because he is unique and personalities describe the differences among human multitudes. In fact, I see no difference between God and the universe as it is. God is simply what is as opposed to what isn't. As God said in the King James Bible "I am that I am." In other words, I exist and I continue to exist.
Please elaborate. You make some severe criticisms of god, 'judging by his deeds'. What are those deeds, & how do you make that judgement?
Great post! I have often been amazed at the reality of my existence. I cannot explain it. I cannot predict it. It happened, & here i am. It certainly is one of the great mysteries of the universe.. as no one can explain, scientifically, how or why we are here. This is what i'm talking about.. great philosophical musings. Thanks for posting.
The fact that science does not yet know what might prevent endless expansion doesn't mean endless expansion is absolutely inevitable. Furthermore, science says that our galaxy will crash into Andromeda first. Here is one author's conception of what lies beyond our universe. It is based on the fact that a chicken egg has a voltage potential from one end to the other. In the center of our "cosmic egg" is a black hole/white hole. New universes are ejected out of the white hole side, let's say going from left to right. As they approach the right end of the "cosmic egg," they start to turn and eventually head back over and around to the other end where they turn back toward the center and return to the black hole side of the center. There is expansion of the universe as it makes the first turn, which accounts for the asymetrical kidney shape of our universe, i.e. the transit makes one end of the kidney temporarily bigger than the other. It's all about birth, growth, death, and progressive rebirth etc. God is making more like himself. It's a long haul, but some shortcuts are available, sort of like the Green Berets with only 3 out of 100 ready to graduate. A hierarchy is available out there, but we can't see it at our vibration level. We get only a limited glimpse of the range of realities. This world is but one of a multitude of nurseries for development of conscious beings. The core of several religions has been distilled to reveal particular universal truths. Anthropomorphic fallacies trip up shallow awareness. The image comparison should take into account a much grander scale. Personification of God doesn't cut it. God is pure consciousness, absolute nonmanifestation, but He has to designate and deligate manifestations of consciousness and energy to make things work, hence His extension from sole source uniformity to duality. Matter is just a manifestation of energy, and Creation is an interaction of opposite polarities. The hierarchy can't be a progressive development without various degrees of physical involvement in matter. Hence we are in the "bottomless pit." You're on the right track, but God, or more likely His subordinate agents do make choices, such as deciding to send additional energy where it is needed most (James Monroe in his guided OBOE exposure to the Fundamental).
Well how about the Great Flood. That and such incidences sure seem the stuff of a "petulant demiurge ". How would you judge that deed ? Looking forward to some great exchanges. Moi
The Great Flood only shows God in league with the ship building and umbrella industries. He must have been an early "corporatist." Kidding aside, all religions have to cope with the fact that terrible things happen, appropriately called "acts of God." Floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, plagues, droughts, infestations, and other calamities crowd the news. We needn't look to the Bible, and that's ignoring man-made calamities such as war. Americans who have never known any of these things belong to a blessed minority. Now there are two responses from religion. God's traditional riposte is found in the Book of Job. Putting it in plain English, God says "I'm the (*)(*)(*)(*)in' boss! I'm the Big Cheese! You think you can do what I do? You think you can be boss? No! So shaddup! Kiss my ring and I'll be good to you. I promise." That was good enough for our ancestors on their knees. Now modern people feel more powerful because of science. If God can send monsoons, man can map DNA, so many people feel on a more equal footing with God. Now God has to woo us with a smiley face; he must love us unconditionally and be forgiving; he must offer social service programs and run food kitchens; he must look like us. That's why clergy seldom threaten fire and damnation anymore. Now those once-commanding figures have become our buddies and confidants. It's all about marketing. So who sends the floods? Not God! There are atmospheric phenomena Ph.D.'s can explain which cause floods. God was shopping for the Christmas party when it happened.
That's just God's line you parrot like a corperationist but, religiously speaking. Pretty good trick for a petulant demiurge, God. Denying responsibility yet making us believe it is good for our tortured, manipulated physical existence. Moi
No one, including God, says calamities are good for the individual. But they're good for the species and good for life. Remember Nietzsche's line, "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger." Overcoming difficulties makes the human species stronger. Besides, humanity isn't God's only constituency. He has everything else to answer to as well.
wow! some of this is even more far fetched than alien seeding! It all make cool sci fi movies, but it has little to do with reality. But modern man has sufficiently blurred the lines between fantasy & reality that it doesn't seem to matter much, anymore. Interesting theory.. what evidence do you have for your beliefs about god? How do you know god is 'energy' or consciousness & not personified in some way? What clues in the universe lead you to that conclusion? Subordinates, now! Why those? If you postulate an omnipotent, almighty god, why would he need subordinates?
Well, i suppose the concept of a 'great flood' transcends specific religious dogma, so it could be applied universally to god. But that is primarily an explanation for current observations, rather than addressing anything specific about the nature of god. But i will agree, if you start with the premise of god being in complete control of the universe. But, if you have a more naturalist view, these things are merely weather patterns, or naturally occurring events, with no moral significance. Is it possible to reconcile a naturalist view with the concept of god? Could there still be a god, who created things, or put things in motion, then lets nature follow it's course? Or is it an 'either/or' situation.. you either have atheistic naturalism, or god(s) throwing lightning bolts & making volcanoes erupt? How are they logically incompatible? BTW, i said 'naturalist' not 'naturist'.. so everyone put their clothes back on..
Why do calamities necessitate a moral judgement? Cannot they just 'happen' for no reason? Certainly that is how they appear to the humans.. some will speculate, 'God has a reason for all this, it is for the best'. But that is an unprovable premise. Events caused by natural processes in the universe do not logically compel me to see a 'reason' for them. I do not need an explanation 'why' the sun comes up every morning. It is just a natural process that has been in motion for as long as we have observed it, & presumably longer than that. Perhaps earthquakes, hurricanes, & floods are a judgement from an angry god, but that is a belief, not a logical, evidentiary based conclusion.
Since there are few indications of what might be going on outside of our universe, our reality may not be a useful criterion for judging speculation on what is out there, especially since we have limited sensory and perception capabilities in our reality. However, using the logic of applying features of the known to the unknown, some plausible schemes can be pondered. The voltage across an egg is not sci fi. Black holes are not sci fi. Patterns repeated in our reality can be extrapolated and applied beyond. Let's call it the product of tightly disciplined fantasy and exceptionally gifted minds. Einstein perceived his most important ideas doing nothing but sitting on his butt, just thinking. If there were solid evidence for beliefs, they would no longer be beliefs. Theosophy seems to be more comprehensive than anything else, since it is backed up by doctrines distilled from several religions. It's all about a do-nothing God who says Let be, Let be, and a rambunctious Demon who says Let's get the show on the road. Sole Source yes, but consciousness can do nothing without energy, and energy can do nothing constructive without consciousness. What else is there but the intelligent harnessing of chaos and wild energy into a cyclic process? God doesn't do it all himself as a unified being. It's not as much fun all by yourself, is it? Again, it's all about growth and development, progression and production. We wouldn't be here if we weren't needed for the process.
