What is the bottom line why Socialism is really being pushed around the globe?

The only fly in that particular ointment is IQ. Especially with all these low IQ illegals roaming around the country sucking up valuable educational resources. Now we could have closed the borders back when they were on their side of the border, but now it's too late.

Time for you to start worrying about your kids, and I'll focus on mine. "we" are just going to have to go our separate ways.

 

We have different ideas, and yours have been rejected. There are no facts or details you have that are anything other than highly suspect. For education, we have vastly different objectives. You want equality, and I don't think equality is possible.

Fortunately, we do have the ability to make those choices for our respective children, and if you worry about the state of education in the country as a whole, well... good luck! You'll just have to do that worrying without me.

 

No, you dodge and spin the facts. It is actually quite rare for any of you on this forum to rely on facts in context to back up your assertions. Facts are your enemy.

 

First of all, I think you're mixing up "equal outcome" with "equal opportunity". There will be individuals who will do better with vocational training. I have a relative who owns a cabinet shop and he would like to see that. HClinton had a serious vocational plank in her education plan - something I believe would be a strong addition for America. The point is the opportunity.

Ignoring that means increasing our social safety net, because there are fewer paying in and more sucking it out.

Being an undocumented alien does not indicate low IQ. In fact, it may be a sign of significant personal initiative - a drive toward better opportunity for the kids, etc. Remember that we're built on immigrants who came here for had work and opportunity as well as for freedom to exercise their own peculiar beliefs.

 

You don't quite get the idea, ol' hoss. Your "facts" have been rejected as just nonsense. It's like some kid pointing to antarctica and saying that it's africa. Sorry, but that kid might think he's pointing out a fact, but it's not worth arguing with stupid.

 

Yes, there is a segment of our nation that rejects education.

I see that as a monumental mistake, because of what it means for the rest of America.

The more kids we think are "not worth arguing with stupid" the more taxes we pay for supporting them, the more uneducated votes, and the less competitive we are when China and the rest of the large economies come knocking for our dollars.

There IS a cost to allowing America to be stupid.

And, that cost is paid by you and me.

 

I've never much cared for that whole distinction between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. The only equality I would like to see is equality under the law.

Yes, ignoring that might result in increasing the social safety net, but that doesn't change my belief that the only social safety net should be one provided by our loved ones, and earned through leading a virtuous life.

Being an undocumented alien means that they couldn't make it back home where there is no social safety net worthy of the name. Sure, there will be some who have the IQ necessary to succeed here. For most, they're slightly higher than American blacks, but that's about it.

 

Nobody is allowing Americans to be stupid. Hell, every public library I've seen has been chock full of books, helpful librarians, and computers connected to the internet. I can learn how to do everything from mixing concrete to making gunpowder on the internet. I can learn how to grill a steak to perfection with Gordon Ramsey himself doing the teaching, or I can learn how to frame a house. The great works from Aristotle to Shakespeare are in the public domain, and yet with all of this information at our fingertips, the only people who can't take advantage of it are the terminally boneheaded.

 

I'm not interested in your racism.

It's just flat out ignorance on your part.

 

lol! What's racist about what I posted?

 

Well, if you are a fan of socialism, by all means go find a socialist country and make it great. For me and our country, we are very satisfied with our Constitutional Republic.

 

Oh I think you can always tell the difference.

 

As near as I can tell, it appeals to the ego of those that see themselves as the likely to be in charge.

 

I get that you are tongue in cheek, but seriously, I think they could hit 200 million and never lose faith. Progs came out of the Left-wing Christian Church and they can seriously stick to a position despite all the facts and evidence to the contrary.

 

Yea, to a liberal, everything is racist.

 

LOL!!! Give it up. You'll never figure it out.

 

What do you think of worker-owned co-ops?

 

Hey, if a bunch of socialists want to get together and pool their money to buy a restaurant, that's perfectly fine.

When has that ever not been the case? It's only when those socialists start thinking that their crazy ideas should apply to the sane, then we have problems.

 

We have a long history of coops in this country, from employee owned to farm coops, hell, even sports supply coops. They certainly seem to be a good choice in places, why do you ask?

 

https://mises.org/wire/venezuela-chavez-prelude-socialist-failure

"Despite the prosperity brought about by Venezuela’s booming economy in the 1950s, Marcos Pérez Jiménez’s government drew the ire of many left-leaning activists due its heavy-handed measures. The tipping point came in 1958, when these leftist activists, working in tandem with a sympathetic military, successfully overthrew Pérez Jiménez in a coup. Pérez Jiménez would live the rest of his life in exile and would be a figure of derision among Venezuelan intellectual and political elites, despite the unprecedented economic and social development under his watch.

Following the 1958 coup, naval officer Wolfgang Larrázabal occupied the presidency briefly until general elections were held later that year. Notable social democrat political leader Rómulo Betancourt would come out on top in these elections and assume the presidency from 1959 to 1964. The Fourth Republic of Venezuela — Venezuela’s longest lasting period of democratic rule, was established under Betancourt’s administration. In 1961, a constitution was introduced, dividing the government into 3 branches — executive, legislative, and judicial — and establishing an activist role for the Venezuelan state in economic affairs.

What seemed like a genuine move toward democratic stability, Venezuela’s Fourth Republic marked the beginning of a process of creeping socialism that gradually whittled away at Venezuela’s economic and institutional foundations.

The Socialist Origins of Venezuela’s Pro-Democracy Advocates
Venezuela’s current collapse did not happen overnight. It was part of a drawn out process of economic and institutional decay that began decades before.

When Venezuela returned to democracy in 1958, it looked like it was poised to begin an era of unprecedented prosperity and political stability.

However, Venezuela’s democratic experiment was doomed from the start, and one needn’t look any further at the political background of its very own founder, Rómulo Betancourt, to understand why it’s entire political system was built on a house of cards.

Rómulo Betancourt was an ex-communist who renounced his Marxist ways in favor of a more gradualist approach of establishing socialism. Despite evolving into more of a social democrat, Betancourt still believed in a very activist role for the State in economic matters."

https://nypost.com/2017/08/01/venezuela-a-nation-devoured-by-socialism/

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/19/16189742/venezuela-maduro-dictator-chavez-collapse

 

Like all other countries, our system is an amalgam of ideas.

And, as I've said before I like our amalgam.

 

I responded to a poster who said:
"Sure, there will be some who have the IQ necessary to succeed here. For most, they're slightly higher than American blacks, but that's about it."

And, that is flat out, unadulterated, pure racism.

 

Duh!

He was the most repressive dictator in Venezuela's modern history.

Suggesting it was "left-leaning activists" who opposed him is a ridiculous statement when you have an ultra-right military dictatorship.

Just curious - how hard did you have to look to find a screed like this?

 

so are you capitalist or socialist or communist?

 

If implemented purely, each of those will kill you.

I like America. But, I think other amalgams have advantages. For example, America's use of free market to provide health care is a disaster - leading to millions having no coverage, super high cost and no better outcome on sound measurement criteria.