What is the bottom line?

It was under the Reagan administration the Fairness Doctrine came to an end.

Time to champion its return.

 

bottom line I think it it's our culture. Mostly the decay of it. I believe it began nacho in the 60s with the "sexual revolution." When the most self centered generation was coming of age. The shift in culture was the removal of responsibility. And one of our gifts from that was the HIV epidemic.

It's hard to say what we can do about it. I'm not sure there is anything. Pandora's box has been opened. I don't think the government is the answer. But then again i lean right with regard to government social interaction.

Our morality is deeply rooted to Christianity. I do love that we have the right to reject or be part of any religion we want. I would never say that we as need to be Christian. But to think morality could spring forth from reason it's absurd. Concepts like Mercy forgiveness inalienable rights and all men being created equally is directly adopted and adapted from Christianity.

I really do understand the rebellion people do toward religion I've been there myself. I never hold the position that it is necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are bad parts to religion and we absolutely can pick and choose. The realm of ideas is a cafeteria.

But that's the long and the short of it decaying culture extremely self-centered people at the heart of the decay and the for lack of a better word General dislike of the founding inspiration of our nation.

 

Yes, of course.

Otherwise they will cease to exist if they don't.

Companies use the extra money to expand and for R&D.

Why can't you understand that simple fact?

 

I think a more discerning public is the ONLY solution. . . . Media caters to its promoted benefactors and those who listen only to what they want to hear.

A patriotic value revival MUST precede reform, and Trump's version of MAGA won't cut it. . . . When the media is no longer rewarded for its mendacity, things will change. . . . . . MARKET INFLUENCES.

 

I get the feeling you have never worked for a company with more than 5,000 employees.

 

Well if you work for a company with that many employees and they don't give you raises it offer you promotions that is a s*** company and you need to find another job I've done that before I have worked for companies with hundreds of thousands of employees and because I have a good work ethic I was promoted quickly.

If you exist in a dead-end maybe it's because your attitude is that you should only do just enough not to get fired.

 

But this problem is recent. I think detailed investigation would show previous laws prevented these things from happening. Fox lying network was invented and established after the Fairness Doctrine was abandoned, for example.

Obviously. I agree that there needs to be a large, loud, overwhelming repetition of criticism of what he's putting out and alternate viewpoints and analysis must dominate. Part of the problem, as you mentioned here, is that the media regulations have been lifted allowing them to constantly present outrageous content because it gets ratings, and they aren't required to present opposing viewpoints.

 

Because it is untrue nonsense. Try showing how there's any "trickle-down" to the floor employees. Words are cheap. I can show you that for 40 years average real incomes have been flat while productivity and high incomes and wealth disparity have all soared.

 

If you look at our Counter Culture they're saying that American nationalism is it a bad thing. They believe it. I've often heard people compare the US to Europe or even Canada as though they are better.

Its almost like anti-nationalism is en vogue.

Making America great should be the first thing on everyone's mind. But people who say it's not great are mad because they themselves aren't having a great experience. They will blame any form of Oppression or racism for it, because they believe the country should do things for them. In the 50s these people would have been chastised for it.

My sentiment is if you don't like it get out. That sentiment is reviled because the self-centered people within our culture think that the problem is not them.

Sad really.

 

I don't agree with anti-USA rhetoric or much of any nationalistic/anti-nationalistic rhetoric. But I think you are misinterpreting the "Counter Culture" characteristics to which you refer, here. I think what you're seeing is a reaction to the realization that the USA is now in decline, forfeiting leadership to China and Europe, and so major industries are abandoning the very people who made them what they are: the American worker. It's natural for people with little or no solid analysis to thrash out in anger and maybe that's what you're seeing.

 

if you don't agree with anti USA rhetoric you are a nationalist. So you're following statement doesn't make sense. I think you misunderstand what nationalism is. Nationalism isn't the belief that were 100% perfect and don't need to change it all. It isn't the belief that we shouldn't allow people in from different countries and cultures. It is the beliefs that the u.s. is the best. And if you don't believe that I don't see why you live here.

As far as the counterculture goes. I have not misrepresenting it the left has a soft spot for it because it is born out of the left. The counter culture seeks to dissolve our borders and our culture. That's why we are where we are. It is profoundly self-centered and a Marxist.

The American worker is so incredibly self-centered that we are unhireable in the international market. I've applied and interviewed for international jobs. Things such as labor unions that at one point needed to exist but no longer do have destroyed American labor more than any other country. China can't beat us at our own game they can't really beat anybody at their own game all they can really do is produced cheap knock-offs and they can do this because they have a subjugated population.

America was never great because of other nations were terrible. It was great because the people were.

I know it's easy to blame corporations and governments and it absolves you of any responsibility but that's all it's for.

 

But in far too many ways, the US is not the best any longer. That's the point.

LOL!!! That's a rehash of the 1960s "love it or leave it" BS. You mean you don't love the USA enough to fight for corrections to what you see to be wrong? You object to plenty that you see in the USA every day here, so somewhere in that there seems to be some measure of hypocrisy.

It's liberalism. Liberalism is not Marxism. You say it's Marxism and "Resisting Arrest" and I are as close to Marxists as you will find on this forum, yet you haven't asked either of us for our position on borders and culture. So it's hard to take you seriously.

Now THAT smacks of anti-nationalism.

And?

That sort of anti-unionism attitude is merely your right wing opinions yet you present it as fact.

And Americans buy their products made with cheap labor that shifts wealth to the business owners.

So you blame people who are and have been "victims" of the system and pawns of capitalism instead of putting the blame where it belongs, squarely on the "movers and shakers" of capitalism. LOL!!! I guess that would be called "anti-Americanism".

LOL!!! And it isn't easy to blame the people and workers for what the rich and powerful corporate elite and their government have actually done? LOL!!!! You're a case.

 

Interesting. I escaped the Rhode Island/Massachusetts area 40 years ago.

It looks like, as the crow flies (does the crow fly a straight line??) you're about the same distance from Mount Hood as I am here in the Scappoose/Warren/Saint Helens area, so the view of the mountain from my property is probably about the same. And similar to your photo, we have a view across a valley to a grassy hillside of about 50 acres where a herd of about 50 elk come out to graze occasionally. We used to have elk in our back yard once in a while but half a dozen additional homes were built and now they only come at night. We find their footprints across our spare acre and out over the road. But we love the wildlife including the coyotes. Ah, but then there is the occasional skunk and the field mice. And when the fog rises up out of the trees up the hill behind that 50 acre slope, it looks like a Japanese painting of such a view.

Regarding politics, I must say I'm a bit surprised. You are clearly a rational, knowledgeable, and decent guy, and your vote for Trump seems to me to be a contradiction. I, like so many, quickly saw his self-serving personality, his misogyny, his poor judgement in choosing his words, and I must say his emotional troubles that have him emotionally stuck at about age 12. And that isn't merely an attempt at a Trump put-down. I sincerely mean, knowing what I do about psychology and emotional trauma, that I judge his "stuckness" to be at about that age, maybe younger. I saw him as dangerous and unqualified in so many ways. So it's hard to get my head around a vote for him on the basis of the likelihood that he would shake things up in any beneficial way while ignoring or overlooking his blatant flaws as the risks that they are. But in time, I'll get over it. I'm sure we all will.

 

The technological advances in travel and communication have paved the way for us to become part of the global community, and it would be in our best interests to make MUTUALLY beneficial compromises. Shattering alliances and getting the upper hand on other nations is NOT making America great. Is isolationism not self-centered?

BTW, I have served my country, paid a generous portion of my income in taxes, and made substantial contributions to charity, so don't think that merely supporting Trump gives you the authority to shut me up.

 

I live near the edge of a residential area in my town. That beautiful view picture is not my own. I got it off the net. It was taken from a hill overlooking the general area.

I think we are lucky to live where we live. It really is beautiful. I don't have elk in my neighborhood, but we do have a healthy population of deer who just casually wander all around the residential areas foraging on everybody's flowers, fruit trees, and shrubs. I took some video of one of the little raiders from the window of my living room a while back. It was chowing down on my wife's beloved roses. Here's a still from that video:



I, too, can hear the coyotes yipping and howling at night from just outside the residential area. We had a cougar sighting in town a while back, but with all these deer, it's not really surprising. Raccoons, possums, skunks, squirrels - all frequent visitors.

Thanks for the compliments. To reciprocate, you seem like a sincere fellow who cares about our nation. You are firmly in the progressive camp, but, like my very progressive neighbors, you probably live conservatively in most ways, and you're good people. There is much about the progressive side that drives me crazy, being a fairly conservative sort. But I shall remain an Independent, and I shall continue to define "conservative" as I see fit. My definition of it is not "Republicanism", nor does it fit with the ultra right fringe.

I already told you what I think of Hillary, and you agreed with me. Now given that Trump has his personality flaws as well, I just voted for the one whose ideas most reflected my own. My vote for Trump shouldn't really surprise you. I want most of the things he talked about: fair trade, industry that produces in the U.S., border security, respect for law and order and for law enforcement, support for the 2nd Amendment, no more "regime change" wars against countries that are no threat to us, a strong military, term limits, conservative judges, and something better than Obamacare. And I wanted to send Washington - the swamp - a message. As a conservative, it was particularly satisfying to send that message to the Republicans in Washington. I know I'm repeating myself here, but this last election cycle gave me renewed hope in the American people and that we may be able to take back our government. Because when you combine the votes that Bernie got in the primaries with the votes that Trump got in the general, then we realize that Americans overwhelmingly voted against the Establishment Swamp and sent them a message.

I agree with those who say Trump is not a Republican. I think he is an Independent who used the Republican Party. But I think his successful campaign points to something else, and that is that a charismatic leader could lead the formation of a major third party in this country - a centrist party that would cut the legs out from under the Washington Beltway Republicans and the far left Democrats. A party oriented to the 80% I spoke of. I don't think Trump is the one to do it, but I think his successful candidacy could be the inspiration for it. I think Americans are sick to death of Republicans and Democrats, and they are yearning for a government that works together for them.

I don't think the idea of a successful third party is out of the question. If it was established and led by someone with the charisma of JFK or Ronald Reagan, combined with the steadiness and experience of a man like Eisenhower, I think people would flock to it.

Cheers!

 

Go live there.

I addressed that directly next time read my post so as not to appear foolish.

In your strawman I believe there is hypocrisy. But my statements aren't your strawman.

I could care less if you take me seriously. You accused me of misrepresenting the counter culture. Prove it or nobody should take you seriously.

I agree being self centered is certainly not nationalism.

Read further.

Imagine that...a conservative that has low opinions of unions.

I didn't present it as fact. You inferred my intent. That is your folly.

Meritocracy rules. If cost is prohibitive from buying American made things than the cost of manufacture is too high.

So there are a couple things that raise cost.

You put victims in quotes. Seems you didn't buy these victims are victims of the system.

People that have been victimized by our economy aren't victims of capitalism they are victims of corporatism. Our economy isn't capitalist it is corporatism. I dislike that and think we should move to a freer Markey with fewer government entanglements.

So the solution would be removing government entanglements. I agree with that. Fines and regulations as well as governmental forces propping up poor companies and products is stealing money from the masses to play "let's try and be more like europe."

John F Kennedy a left wing democrat was famous for saying "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." That sentiment as completely reversed among the left and counter culture.

You can LOL and moan and cry about your moronic strawman fallacies and my intent of my typing (as if you could possibly know) or you can argue my position. Seems you can't so please don't take me seriously. I like being underestimated.

 

I completely disagree. It has occured throughout all history that if the culture is watered down the nation falls.

We have always been a part of the global community. Our nation up until this culture shift was any economic power house. We didn't need to compromise then.

National isolationism? No because a nation isn't an individual.

Me having a different opinion than you isn't me trying to shut you up, so you can get off of your cross.

 

Corporate-orchestrated division is the reason for these recent developments, but unless we can heal this division, the masses don't possess the political clout necessary to influence ANY legislation.

Our best recourse is to fully exploit any public platforms, official or celebrity status, or accessible media sources to promote LOGICAL arguments favoring our causes. . . . I write editorials for local newspapers, and I actually spend more on promoting my book than I make on sales.

Run for office if you haven't been caught groping.

 

I had to put up electric fences to protect my fruit trees and garden.

I agree. And it would be much easier if we had instant runoff voting.

 

My sentiment is if you don't like it get out.

Sounds more like an ultimatum than an opinion to me.

 

Do you not know what sentiment is?

 

I do live there.


Let me help you with punctuation that seems so foreign and unmanageable to you....

I have read. You didn't address it and I don't expect you will "next time". And you add to your failures with a personal attack. That screams "I'M A LOSER!!!"

You've descended to bickering.

Face reality. Did you see deflation, i.e. and reduction of the prices of good when manufacturing moved overseas? No. But do you know why? It was because all the gains went to the business owners, not to the consumer. So the cost of manufacturing wasn't "prohibitively high". It was an opportunity for the business owners to be greedy without concern for American workers who made them great in the first place. Of course I may not be interpreting your poorly-worded sentence accurately, and so my reply to it may be unsuitable, but what can I do? I'm communicating with someone who has trouble putting a thought together.

Oh give me a break. This is a new trick of desperate defenders of capitalism: they pretend we don't have a capitalist economy any longer. We have private ownership of business for private profit, so we do have capitalism. HOW they manage their private business is immaterial.

 

The corruption of our young.

We have a population with an increasing lack of self accountability and responsibility. I cite 2 factors. Parental good intentions with unintended consequences and rapidly advancing technology.

1. Good intentions reap unintended consequesces

In our push to make life better for our children I think we have lost track of what it is our children really need. We have inadvertently with good intentions in mind, programmed our young to value objects over relationships. Too much of what they want and to little of what they need.

In our efforts to give them a better life we are removing that which makes life worth living. We sheltered our young from experiencing the consequences of their choices. We don't allow them to fight their own battles and learn real life problem solving skills. Education has been watered down with too many feel good exercises and too little basic instruction. We are creating an increasing number of adults with a diminished sense of accountability and responsibility because they don't
know how to be responsible. We are fostering a sense of entitlement and teaching them when things don't go their way it is someone else's fault.

Kids are increasingly being pushed to grow up sooner while at the same time we try to shelter them from real life realities. It is no wonder so many of them are drawn to someone like Bernie Sanders. They see him as someone who will take care of them.

2. Technology and social media

I don't blame technology. It is a tool. Just like i don't blame the hammer when it hits my thumb. we have not yet learned how to deal with technology responsibly. How can we expect this of our children?

We are in a time where instant gratification has become the norm. Add that to a lacking in accountability and and you have a recipe for disaster. We are living our lives in virtual reality. On social media, facebook, twitter,forums ect. You can be anywhere, do/say anything on a whim at the push of a button with little or no consequence.

Every time i pay attention to twitter i come away thinking my god these people have the same emotional maturity as my kids when they were 5 or 6 years old. We even have a 3rd rate game show host/media attention whore for president who cant put it down. Honestly im not sure which is worse. Trumps tweets or those who oppose him feeding him his fix by playing the game with him.

It is mind boggling to me that my 30 year old daughter and her 2 35 year old brothers can barely function without a cell phone. And yet all 3 of them are by most standards relatively responsible adults. This isn't limited to the young. I see the same behavior from folks nearer my age.

There is little accountability on the internet and very little real interaction. Its no wonder we are becoming more and more divided. Nobody knows how to sit down and talk about their differences. It is easier and more gratifying to argue and toss insults online. Bring it face to face and we are unable to cope.

From what i have seen skimming over this thread it is nearly if not all about economics. Perhaps it was intended that way. For my money if we don't get a handle on the bigger picture ... economics aren't going to matter.

 

My company has been around since 1987 and is privately owned and we ALL get our own office, our own computer, medical benefits, 50 cents to the dollar 401K matching, and bonuses from 10% of the profits.

 

Delete