What will right-wingers with no health insurance do now?

Because you appear to be so centered on how many tests are available on where you live. As if that helped solve the nationwide problem.

Case in point.

I'm as interested on the problem having been solve where you live, as you seem to be on the problem being solved everywhere else in our country. The difference is that my focus actually gives solving the problem a better chance. Yours only allows you to count the numbers. Unless, as I said above, you implement some sort of "reverse quarantine"

Facts are what I live for. But I'm tired of asking you to show them. So I have given up trying.

Bottom line: I show my references, you refuse to show any.

If there is any casual reader out there, they can make up their mind as to which option is, maybe not necessarily "correct", but certainly more reasonable.

I claimed what? I have claimed no such thing. But it's useless to expect you to show a quote. First, because you never support your claims with references. And second, because no such quote exists.

Thanks for playing.

Huh? Universal testing doesn't mean that everybody gets access to a coronavirus test kit at this point. It means that everybody has access to tests.

I was about to send you references of CDC and health authorities referring to what S. Korea does as "universal testing". But what for? You show no reference to anything. Not even when you falsely accuse me of saying things I didn't say. So that proves beyond a doubt that a expecting a serious debate with you is hopeless.

Well.... I can't bring myself to making claims with no references. But I won't make too much of an effort. So here goes this, which I happened to have on hand because of another discussion.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases, said the U.S. health system just isn't designed for universal testing.

“The system is not geared to what we need right now – what you’re asking for,” Fauci told a House committee on Thursday. “That is a failing. It’s a failing. Let’s admit it.”

He added: “The idea of anybody getting (a test) easily the way people in other countries are doing it, we’re not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes. We’re not.”
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-responsible-testing-problems-things/story?id=69590286​

Thanks anyway....

 

Health insurance prior to Obamacare was already no longer affordable for many middle income Americans. Hence why there were tens of millions without coverage.
You say Obamacare drove coverage down, could you be more specific as to what you mean by that?

 

@Golem since you want to call me a liar, I'm still waiting on you to prove the red text. I wont hold my breath because I'm not the one "full of it". I dont have a family and make far less. When your deductible is sky high, it amounts to catastrophic. A simple google of "who qualifies for free Obamacare in Florida" does not remotely prove your erroneous claim.

 

Depending on where in Florida one lives they may only have a single provider and their rates and deductibles are sky high.

 

Lots of points to address, but I'll try:

1) It's important to know that while there were tens of millions without coverage before Obamacare, not all were without because it was unaffordable. About 1/3 of those who skipped insurance were earning more than $75,000 a year. (And that's when you could get a good plan with a low deductible for around $400 - $500 a month, so there really was no excuse.) Now, though, we have people earning substantially less ($50,000) being required to pay as much as $1,000, and for much less coverage. That is why we still have so many millions without insurance.

2) The reason coverage is so much worse, even with premiums now twice as much, is largely due to the sky-high deductibles (which tripled under Obamacare). That means that even though a person has bought Obamacare-approved insurance, he or she still has to pay for lab fees, exams, treatments, and so forth until they reach a high amount of around $6,000 or $7,000. That is more akin to catastrophic insurance, but the premium is as if it is "platinum" insurance.

3) It's also much harder to get seen by specialists since the advent of Obamacare, with slim networks forcing people out-of-network and having to pay full fees that don't even apply to the deductible. Previous to Obamacare, for example, I paid a co-pay of $35 to see a specialist. Since Obamacare, I have had to pay as much as $500 to see a specialist for even 10 minutes (even with insurance).

In summary, Obamacare made things better for many lower-income Americans (via subsidies) but worse for many middle-income Americans. It just shifted the costs around without addressing the key problem, which is the inflated costs themselves.

I hope this somewhat answers your question. It might appear to be off-topic, but I do think it responds to the OP who is annoyed (unhappy?) with people who have opted out of Obamacare. It's just a very bad deal for moderate earners.

 

I wish you would stop saying that right wingers (whatever that means) don't understand Obamacare. You are saying things about it that just aren't true. For example, people under $50K net (and it's not really net; it's MAGI) do not get coverage for free. You have to drop down pretty far to get free coverage.

The other thing, and I mentioned this before, that even if Trump had NOT said he would cover the cost for the Corona test (which he has), for the vast majority of people it would make NO DIFFERENCE whether they had Obamacare-approved insurance or not. With the sky-high deductibles, insured people would have to pay anyway. That's the rub! But even worse, sometimes the person without insurance gets a "cash" price which is lower than the "negotiated discount" with insurance.

 

His comment was absurdly false and he has the nerve to say I was lying when I went directly to the O care website. If the goal was to get lower income folks to sign up, it's a dismal failure. Like they even said, It was designed to fail.

 

Please demonstrate anything I’ve said isn’t factual. Again, I’m sorry people here can get tested and you can’t.

Ironically some of my information came from a source you linked all by yourself. I posted the pull quote from that source that directly contradicts your premise. Why waste my time when you link stuff that proves you wrong? I’m informed on this subject enough to make statements that are correct without having to source everything for lazy people like you. If you think I’m in error, it should be easy for you to point out the error because you know, your sig line.

Ummm. Sure Golem.

Do you have a ghost writer? LOL

It’s not a game, Golem. You make false statements and I point them out. That’s it.

You made your claim that universal testing was working in South Korea. No such thing exists. You were wrong. I’m not chasing your stupid moving goal posts. Again, I’m sorry you can’t get tested, but everyone in my area that needs tested is tested. What would make you happy, us sending you a test?

Yes it’s hopeless to debate you because you are wrong about everything and don’t care.
You made the claim South Korea was having success with universal testing without a source. You were wrong. I don’t have universal testing where I live. We are doing exactly what South Korea is doing. We are having success as well. Cool, huh?

But you’ve made numerous incorrect claims without references. Including South Korea is having success with universal testing, this is the most widespread epidemic, and the only way to stop this is universal testing.

So I watched Fauci’s testimony this journalist is referencing. He was replying to a question about nurses supposedly being denied testing and how our system is based on local decisions on test administration. The answer he gave about failure was in relation to not having central authority and leaving decisions up to health boards that may or may not administer tests as liberally as others. Nowhere did he say anything about universal testing in that testimony. But that should be obvious since universal testing doesn’t exist anywhere. The journalist made that up just like you made up South Korea universally testing.

This is one reason it isn’t wise to base arguments on individual links. Because as often as not, the media piece link is in error. It’s best to have a broad knowledge on the subject, not just repeat linkable nonsense, like you’ve done here.

 

I make well under 50K, there is no "free" O care for me, in Florida. I got a quote of 495$ directly from Health care.Gov

So where do I get "free" O care, like you said?
So what are you calling me? Dont be scared, come out with it.

 

...dog faced pony....

 

And not all who don’t have insurance now is due to it being unaffordable

How many people have these plans with $7,000 OPM? I keep hearing a out these plan on message board but have never met anyone in person who has such a plan.

I, nor my wife, have any issue seeing specialists. We both pay $15 copay for a specialist visit. Are you on an exchange plan that has you paying $500 to see a specialist? I have been in the healthcare industry for past 29 years and have never heard of anyone with health insurance paying that much for a specialist.

 

Have you ever had an Obama Care health plan?

 

There is no such thing as an “Obama Care health plan”. All health plans are administered through private health insurance companies.

 

How about this, after you saying I was lying about my O care quote, directly from HealthCare.Gov
I'm not calling you a liar. I'm calling you something that I would consider much worse, but maybe you don't.
I bet you think that's fine. So what were you calling me? I cant read minds.

 

If you haven't heard of that, then you don't realize how bad Obamacare has been. Many people have found that the high-deductible plans, with premiums as high as $1000 (varies according to age of course), are the only ones they can even consider buying - and some opt out entirely. The plans with reasonable deductibles, around $2,000 (common in the pre-Obamacare days), can be well over $1500 a person, and $3,000 per month for a couple for insurance is just not doable for most middle-income people. Virtually everyone I know who buys their own insurance (meaning not associated with an employer) has the high deductible plans I mentioned.

As for $500 to see a specialist, yes....it has happened to me twice this year. The sad fact is that middle-income Americans, who have always bought in the individual marketplace, have become woefully underinsured as a result of Obamacare, and as such make do with much less care due to cost. (The lower-income get it covered.) And I'm not sure what you mean by an exchange plan, since the off-the-exchange individual plans are identical. (Same networks; same premiums, same deductible.) The fact is that Obamacare did decimate the individual market, and many counties have only one or two insurance carriers where before they easily had a dozen. My previous carrier, pre-Obamacare, told me they abandoned the individual marketplace in 47 states.

Do you have a plan associated with an employer? If so, you have not experienced just how bad Obamacare has been for millions of people

 

Well sure, if you choose the lowest level exchange plan you’re going to have high deductibles. But if you’re in need of one of those plans because that’s all you can afford then aren’t you getting subsidies? Otherwise get a better plan.
Something doesn’t sound right if you’re having to pay $500 for a specialist. Again, 29 years in the industry and never heard of anyone spending that much to see a specialist.

 

You simply won't admit that Obamacare is BAD for middle-income Americans who previously bought their own health insurance. And what do you mean "get a better plan"? A better plan would be more than $1500 a month, and it still carries a significant deductible. What you are unwilling to acknowledge is that Obamacare was great for low-income people, but it put the ability to purchase decent health insurance beyond the reach of middle-income people.

And why do you find it so hard to believe that it costs $500 for a specialist? That's what many charge. (I have two specialists and was able to negotiate a $300 fee with one of them for next time.) People who weren't victimized by Obamacare never see the full inflated fee because their employer-based insurance (or Medicare) is decent. But trying to buy an individual policy, after Obamacare decimated the individual market, is an awful experience. As I said, there are entire counties with ONE insurer.....total monopoly.

I ask you again: do you have a plan associated with an employer? If so, you have not experienced the negative impact of Obamacare on millions of people. Why so reluctant to admit that Obama hurt lots of people with his "Affordable" Care Act?

 

I've been seeing many right-wingers state that I'm unclear about something I researched, and then not being able to show what that is. I read the rest of your post expecting you to, not only tell us what it is I'm not clear on about how Obamacare works, but to clarify it. Not even the former. So it looks like you're in that group. Saying it is easy. You will learn that demonstrating it... not so much.

Yep! I immediately noticed how you carefully chose your words to not say that you yourself earned $50K but trying to leave it obscure enough. That's what I meant when I said there was something "odd"

That is inaccurate. Before Obamacare, increases were between 15% to 20% every year. Before the exchanges the average increase each year was 10%. The exchange markets rolled out in 2014 and 2014 to 2015, the increase was 6%. And after 2015 increases have been around 4.5% in some studies, 2% in others. Certainly within the margin of error. Which means they have stabilized sooner than the CBO projected.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/071415/did-obamacare-make-premiums-go.asp

They are expected to drop this year
https://www.wsj.com/articles/premiums-for-aca-health-plans-are-set-to-drop-in-2020-11571749200

As for the rest, you give no references. You might learn soon that here just... saying... things... is rarely taken seriously. Verifiable references (like the ones I provide above) are required.

 

Pay out of pocket.
If you can't afford to pay out of pocket for something like this, you probably can't afford insurance premiums either.

 

First of all... quote me calling you "a liar". Or retract! If you don't provide a quote and don't retract you will have shown that you are not to be taken seriously.

 

(I would like to "call out" quotes, as you did with me, to respond more easily, but do not know how to do that. Perhaps you can tell me.)

That said:

1) Your use of the word "obscure" implies that I was trying to be give the (false) impression that I was earning $50K. In fact, I was empathizing with individuals who earn around that (and not claiming I specifically do), because the Obamacare Act hit them especially hard. These are the people who can no longer afford to buy expensive insurance plans (even the bare-bones Bronze plan can be as much as $1000 a month), and for poor coverage with high deductibles.

2) Obamacare increases average 22% (although some states saw increases of 50% in some years), meaning that premiums increased only slightly more after Obamacare than before, but there are two problems with that: First, Obamacare was supposed to REDUCE premiums, not "slightly increase" them; but second, the premiums went up 22% for MUCH WORSE coverage. You're not comparing apples to apples. Would you say that a plan that cost $500/month in one year but $600/month the next went up 20%? Not if you factor in that the deductible went up from $2,000 to $5,000, and that to get a comparable plan you'd have to pay 35% more.

3) I will ask you the same question I asked the other poster: Are you getting Medicare or a plan associated with an employer? Unless you are a middle-income American who now is forced to buy an individual plan in a "stripped-down" environment (i.e., maybe a choice of two insurance companies, if you're lucky), with record-high deductibles, then you really haven't felt the impact of Obamacare. It was a bad law, hurt millions of moderate earners, and left many people who had previously been able to buy decent coverage saddled with expensive and nearly worthless plans. But based on your OP, you have no sympathy for them and instead criticize them for being placed in such an untenable position.

https://www.policygenius.com/blog/obamacare-health-insurance-premium-increase/

 

In Florida, not too far down.

No! Insurance companies will pay for those insured, The government will pay for uninsured. And the question on the OP is to those who have said they refused to become insured because they would pay for their own medical treatment, if they would pay for their own testing.

So you're saying that the full price is lower than the discount price?

Your math is as weird as your statements. But looks like you don't fee the need to present references.

 

Isn't it wonderful to demand from others to prove a negative?

You make the claims... you show the evidence!

It's a waste of my time to provide you with references to every statement I make as if you were a serious poster who refuses to do the same.

Let me know when you want to make any statement that you can back up with a verifiable reference, quote... something other than your "prove me wrong!" and "I'm right because I said so".

 

A healthcare market professional! They are all over the state. Almost as many as there are realtors.... and psychologists.

I have a different one in every business owner networking group in which I participate. I am absolutely sure I know one wherever you live in the state. I have contacts with dozens of them all over Florida (and some elsewhere).

I'm calling your actions irresponsible.