Where is the answer to this mess?

This doesn't work.

As our population density increases, reasons for requiring group cooperation emerge and increase in importance.

 

The absolute insurance you can't do something is to believe failure is a "foregone conclusion" .
Most people want solutions to fit into their perceptions. If they don't, they immediately take that position.
This is why things stay the same- most people lack the vision to see beyond what they already think they know.
Fortunately, that limit is not total.
That is why we have most of the inventions your life revolves around today, from the telephone to your television to your computer... even exist.
Somebody did what couldn't be done. They were able to do that because they refused to be limited by what they thought they already knew, and took a new perspective.
Happens all the time. Happening faster than ever now.

You can list problems and why-nots all day.
Can you list any solutions?

 

Claiming that those who don't agree with you simply believe in failure as a foregone conclusion or lack "vision" IS ad hom.

And that is ALL it is.

If you want to promote change, you have to state what the change is.

Just an arbitrary demand for change based on platitudes as you have posted is worse than useless, as it detracts from advancing the success our system has provided.

 

I don't even think we see the same problems, let alone solutions. The biggest problem in the world today is overpopulation on a planet with very finite resources, and the destruction that overpopulation is inflicting on global ecosystems. Tied in with that is that world governments are tied to an economic system that rewards the destruction of said ecosystems while promoting economic growth which requires population growth... which takes us back to the main problem of overpopulation.

 

I agree with this assessment both on the importance of this problem and on the likelihood that Springtide is worried about a very different problem that he envisions.

 

Well- I think you are right about what we see. Nearly impossible to get a combined effort to solve a problem when people can't agree on what the problems are, why they exist or what to do about them.
The power of the problems grows exponentially to the extent of people's confusion about them, and inability to respond effectively is impaired in the same way, but to the negative.

Even if you present a sound solution, people want their solution to work- and they will literally reject what will rather than revise that.
I learned many years ago that most "problems" aren't problems; they are the SYMPTOMS of problems.
You don't cure the disease by treating the symptoms... you cure the symptoms by treating the disease.
To do that you have to identify it, know how it works, find it's weakness- and take advantage of it.

Things are complicated- but we magnify and multiply that a thousand fold by insisting we address symptoms.
The symptoms are what we experience, we insist that is what must be treated. It never ends.

We have just lost one of the best men America has seen in a long time- Colin Powell. This is part of his philosophy:

Colin Powell's 13 Life Rules

1. 
   1. It ain’t as bad as you think. It will look better in the morning.
   2. Get mad, then get over it.
   3. Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position
   falls, your ego goes with it.
   4. It can be done!
   5. Be careful what you choose. You may get it.
   6. Don’t let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision.
   7. You can’t make someone else’s choices. You shouldn’t let someone
   else make yours.
   8. Check small things.
   9. Share credit.
   10. Remain calm. Be kind.
   11. Have a vision. Be demanding.
   12. Don’t take counsel of your fears or naysayers.
   13. Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier.
   

 

Well, what would you consider the problems and what would you consider the disease? I would say The problem is overpopulation. Everything else is a symptom. But then you could argue that because capitalism harnessed the energy through fossil fuels to artificially maintain exponential instead of linear population growth, that capitalism is the root problem. But Capitalism also provides outstanding quality of life through massive energy use that much of the world has grown addicted to. So, how do we balance maintaining relatively high levels of quality of life without continuing the cycle that is destroying us? That will probably be the answer to this mess.

 

I would have to moderate that slightly.

Many of the issues that I perceive Springtide as worrying about have to do with the fact that we WANT TO live in close proximity to each other. We have LONG moved toward being more urban. I don't see a strong argument for that being caused by overpopulation, as people in the US could move out of urban centers if they wanted to.

 

We had a 200 year plus history of working together to solve our problems. And we survived wars, pandemics, Civil War, World Wars and a debilitating financial collapse(s); because we were the U.S. ... US!

In the last 30 - 40 years we've moved into combat news and politics and now we can't even pass a budget. I've said this before and been shouted down, but, no matter what side of the fence you're on, IF WE don't put aside the unreasonable and unjustified hate dividing U.S. we will realize your deepest fears and OUR Nation will fail. That's as obvious as the back of your hand.

There are some of US that think that would be a good thing. Once Government BY THE PEOPLE is gone we may never get it back. And only then, if that unthinkable outcome happens, will we really realize what we've lost.

 

So do you think that it is our numbers that make us unable to manage ourselves, rather than our failure to manage properly?

The ability to maintain order and balance in our behavior and decisions has far more to do with the outcome than the number of people involved- and regardless of any other problem, the inability to cohesively work as a team insures that problems will continue to arise and grow. So the first factor is the ability to get the process of working together in a healthy structure becomes priority 1. In engineering- Order of Magnitude, understanding the sequence of dependence of factors. Nothing is possible when we devote all our energy to fighting ourselves. Until we get that fixed, we can't do anything right. A wise people would fix the shifting foundation before patching the roof again.

 

Amen.

Democracy can be disgusting, but there is nothing better in the world.

What we need to do is to ensure it works - that everyone can have their vote counted equally, that decisions are made based on representatives who actually represent their constituencies.

We have slid far to far away from that. Now, our representatives are actually attacking our ability to VOTE!!

 

In a democracy, there is ONE primary objective.

And, that is free and fair elections. And, in a representative democracy like ours, that means that the representatives covering me are actually working for my district/state/city or whatever - not just being rubber stamps for some national party.

Without that, one does not have a democracy.

 

Of course it does and human beings will form of their own free will organizations that will handle most of those problems without any interference from government and the less interference they get from government the better and more efficient they will be. The only things governments are useful for are Establishing justice punishing evil, and defending from outside attack. Much beyond that and it becomes increasing tyrannical.

 

I agree. I think the only way to do that is to fix Washington DC. Set term limits, decouple government service from any possibility of profiting from it, eliminate lobbying, eliminate campaign contributions, and dismantle the 2 party system in favor of many parties. I think this will attract an entirely different breed of politician to DC, and drive away those only seeking to benefit themselves. It will also eliminate the polarizing effect of the 2 party system. With leadership in place in washington that is there to actually lead and not profit, I think we can start to get our own house in order. Then from there lead the world in fixing the extra-national problems.

The real trick is getting anyone in washington to agree to the changes.

 

This is some fabulous dream you have.

It would be nice if everyone just did the right thing!

One catch is the "right thing" would include protecting each other from COVID by following proven solutions from science based medicine.

So much for THAT!!

 

Not in my country. We pay 'council rates', which are a fairly token amount tithed to the local organ for waste services/roads etc. It ranges between $1000 and $3000 a year .. with the majority being around $1500. Even on a minimum wage that amount can be raised over the couse of twelve months. Those who aren't big earners usually pay it monthly to avoid the big hit, and to avoid the temptation of spending that $100 a month! We also don't have that bizarre 'HOA' BS you guys allow. Once you own your place here, it's yours and yours alone. No one else has any control over it, and you don't pay any other fees or costs.

 

Term limits are just plain EVIL.

The reason is that all we get are newbies at running government. And, even if they learn how to be effective, they are forced out of office.

So, they have ONE focus - what their next job will be. So, who do they serve - you or their next employer?

Plus, newbie legislators depend on their staff. And, that staff comes from their parties. We don't get to vote for them. So, by booting legislators every term, we end up with the staff, who have never even been identified, let alone having face election, get to run the show to a much larger extent.

Term limits turns our offices over to the unelected elites that DO NOT represent us and to the lobbyists and corporations who hire those leaving office.


We need democracy. You want to give it away for FREE!

 

Indeed. Plus they seem to think 'fun and pleasures' are far more important than financial security. A position which bites them HARD, when the consequences of such a juvenile attitude come home to roost. It's an attitude of immense privilege, obviously. Stolen from the wealthy, and adopted without filter by those who can least afford to live that way.

 

I agree with this direction on property taxes.

But, there do have to be other methods of revenue.

In WA, there is no income tax. So, the state is forced to have high property tax in order to cover the cost of education, transportation, etc.

 

Post of the Month

 

I would prefer to see welfare remain with federal govts - so it's uniform across the nation. Everyone knows exactly what the rules and numbers are, and aren't all rushing to the 'best paying state'. My issues are entirely with the model as is - because it allows for spastic abuse, which in turn enables apathy and disempowerment.

 

Brilliantly put.

The thought that these people consider themselves 'compassionate' is horrifying. Not because they're not actually compassionate, but because none of this has ever ocurred to them. They evidently care SO little, that they haven't even bothered thinking through the implications of their 'charity'. That's some serious disconnect! Coupled with such insistence that they're the Deep Carers, it most likely amounts to some kind of narcissistic need for approval. I guess 'the poor' and 'the coloured folk' are seen as an easy device to leverage that. It's likely they don't give a **** how much damage it does to those groups.

 

I'm referring ONLY to the welfare system. If you're curious about that, let me know.

 

I believe all Govts should prioritise private property, by facilitating lower land taxes and the like. If they want less citizens dependent upon the public purse, that should always be the goal. Your WA needs to introduce income tax, to that end.

PS: I can't believe how autonomous your States are. It's quite bizarre to to me, coming from a nation with only token State powers.

 

And yet our societies are going the OTHER way, and are becoming more isolationist and individualist.