White Nationalists and Patriotism and the RACIST Label

No one is uninformed enough or has their head buried so far into the sand to believe that. Of course white nationalists exist.

"Over used" is not the same thing as "made up." Of course it has been over used, especially by the left. That doesn't change the fact that white nationalists exist. We have some in this forum. The left didn't invent them. They didn't create Stormfront or Richard Spencer.

 

I'm a white American and I don't share this superstition.

 

Correction, you're a self hating white American.

 

Had there ever been a POTUS before Trump who won the enthusiastic allegiance of self-proclaimed neo-nazis and other white supremacists?

 

Yet another superstition. I don't hate myself or my race.

 

Is this a part of the Nazi-under-every-bed narrative?

 

I've said several times on these forums that they are rare, which is the opposite of "under-every-bead." But the question was about white nationalism. Just because there aren't many of them doesn't meany that one can't answer questions about them. That's silly.

 

Has there ever been a period of time in the United States where the present white majority faces becoming a population minority in the future?

Has there ever been a time of history where the domestic workforce has been decimated in wages because of an illegal imported foreign workforce?

You know neo liberals won't bother asking about those things where it's just easier for you guys to call everybody a racist and nazi instead of having an actual intellectual debate on much of anything. These are problems that are not going to magically disappear either.

 

Sure you do which is why you call any white American that doesn't believe in multiracial integration racist. Here's a hint, only self hating white Americans do that.

 

The superstition just keeps getting more divorced from reality: "If you hang out with people who aren't white or think it should continue to be legal for whites to marry non-whites and for non-whites to immigrate here, then you hate white people and you hate yourself!!!!" Yeah, anyone who actually believes that nonsense is racist. It is probably born more from insecurity and paranoia than hate, though.

 

Yes, it's so evil to want to hang around, date, or live with people that look just like yourself! The horror! If there is a neighborhood or state that is too white and racially homogeneous we must hate it, right?

It's not superstition that word you keep using, it's culture and natural biology.

 

Reading comprehension fail. No, if you want to do that, that's fine. If you call others self-hating for having no interest in doing the same, that's when you start wandering into the world of petty superstitious racism. And if you would welcome the use of force people into racial segregation, then you start getting into white nationalist fascism.

I'll try to make it even simpler:
Wanting to hang around with, date, or live with people who look just like yourself: not evil.

Calling anyone who doesn't share this same desire self-hating: intellectually dishonest superstition, but not evil.

Wanting the use of force to enforce those separations: evil.

Lol, my wife has a PhD in biology. I'm sure we'll have a good laugh about that later. Yes, it is superstition. In reality, people of different races willingly mix all of the time. That's why white nationalists want the State to intervene -- to "correct" these biological impulses. Pseudoscience like this belongs in the same dustbin as young earth creationism and phrenology. Biologists don't treat this kind of nonsense seriously, nor should they.

 

Making generalizations based on skin color often are mistaken.

I suspect that all Americans understand that we are a unique nation, which once had a single, unique national identity. Yes, it was born out of European (mainly English) cultures, but it was also a rejection of some European norms

 

If we want to do that, it is fine? Is that why countless millions of foreigners invade this nation every year illegally and legally?

Is that why under Obama there was government programs into place that would look for white neighborhoods deeming them unacceptable and force integrating them within a multi racial framework?

There is no such thing as an impartial neutral government concerning race, ethnicity, and culture. In democracy the majority has all the political power and controls its government.

What would happen if Mexicans became the majority of the United States?

What would happen if the Chinese became the majority in Australia and Canada?

What would happen if Pakistanis became the majority of England?

It's quite simple people like autonomy and more importantly culturally people like racial or ethnic autonomy which means people want a government that represents their ethnic interests collectively. When a government no longer does that for people anymore they will rebel, revolt, and eventually embrace insurrection.

So race has nothing to do with natural biology at all? What kind of biologist is she?

 

The founders of the United States government, nation state, and constitution never expected it to be anything other than European whether you're reading the writings of Thomas Jefferson or so on.

 

That's okay. Few people seem to like Trump. I voted for him and -- unless things really start going wrong with his presidency -- I intend to vote for him in 2020. But I don't actually like him. I just like what he does as president for this nation.

 

Who knows?

Who cares?

Who did Nation of Islam vote for? Anybody care?

 

I might vote for him on grounds of free speech [against internet censorship] and also against the onslaught of foreign immigration. So, there's that. I don't however see myself as a Trump supporter in any other capacity especially on the economic front.

 

We don't want that. You do. And if that is what you want for your personal life, that's fine. I don't think anyone should tell you who to associate with. Your philosophy is the one that preaches that.

Is what why? What are you talking about? It looks like you confused my statements and somehow convinced yourself that what you what is what the rest of the country wants.

Sounds like a dumb plan.

Sure there is: just don't create political restrictions based on race and ethnicity.

The majority obviously doesn't want white nationalism. Tough break. And if you've really read up on our country, its government, and its history, then you would know it doesn't operate purely on majority rule.

If that happened through voluntary actions, without any force involved, then I don't care. If it happened through force, then I care.

To put it simply:
Non-white majority with no force involved > White majority with force involved
White majority with no force involved > Non-white majority with no force involved

But it is also a complete fantasy and the numbers arguments about these so-called "threats" are based on some intellectually dishonest methods that I can go into detail regarding if you like. They are pretty obvious flaws in reasoning.

There are so many contradictions here I don't know where to begin. People like autonomy . . . but they want to sacrifice their autonomy for superstitious racial or ethnic "autonomy" (which anyone who actually knows what the word "autonomy" means will recognize as BS) so that a government can tell them who to associate with. You can have autonomy or you can have collectivist statism. You can't have both. We already know where we both stand on this one.

And the fact that your views are a tiny, tiny minority proves that you are wrong about what people actual want.

Nice attempt at a straw man! No, the instinctual racial separatism you talked about in your last post is not actual biology -- it is white nationalist pseudoscience. Now onto the new claim you tried substituting in. Does race have anything to do with natural biology? Yes and no. The various phenotypes obviously do, but in strict biological terms, there aren't even separate human races. "Race" in strict biological terms refers to subspecies. No biologist or taxonomist actually believes there are separate human subspecies. Not even the various breeds of dogs, which have far more physical diversity, are enough to constitute separate subspecies. Examples of separate subspecies include wolves and dogs or humans and Neanderthals.

Subspecies have taxonomic category that comes after species:
Dogs are canis lupus familiarus and wolves are canis lupus lupus. Humans (regardless of race) are homo sapiens sapiens (so not actually different races in strict biological terms) while Neanderthals were homo sapiens neanderthalensis (actually a different race in strict biological terms).

 

Actually it's clear that a majority of people voted for Donald Trump on immigration alone especially white European Americans because nobody likes the idea of being ethnically or racially replaced.

So there is a clear illustration where a majority of people reject the aims of globalist multiracial integration because if they didn't foreign immigration would be a non issue nation wide politically.

We already have political restrictions based upon race and ethnicity called affirmative action, where are all you libertarians or neo conservatives on that issue?

Yes, by all means extrapolate and go into details on that subject.

There's no such thing as total individual autonomy which is the greatest myth of them all for society is a collective effort and as far as the government is concerned the state is necessary along with all the state interventions it comprises of where anybody arguing the contrary are reduced to a bunch of disingenuous anarchists.

I made one statement with two words, natural biology, where you've extracted from that a host of assumptions or beliefs of mine telling me what I believe in without even asking. Very amusing.

What exactly is wrong with racial and cultural separatism? There is no future with this racial and cultural balkanization.

Pseudoscience? Interesting, what pseudoscience have I mentioned exactly?

Yes, I know what phenotypes are. I probably know more about genetic divergence or diversity than you do.

 

Racist is over used. White nationalist is made up.

 

The majority of people voted for Clinton, not Trump. Remember how our country isn't based on majority rule?

And most Trump supporters wanted something more done about illegal immigration. That doesn't mean that they wanted an end to legal immigration or non-white immigration, which is what white nationalists tend to favor. Logic fail #1.

Non sequitur. If you were right about opposition to legal immigration being based on white nationalism, then everyone opposed to illegal immigration would be against interracial marriage. Logic fail #2.

Affirmative action isn't enforced by the law. It is practiced by individual organizations. Logic fail #3.

It is based on the "one drop of blood rule" for one. In other words, someone who is 7/8 white and 1/8 black would not count as white for the purposes of such numbers. But no other race is treated this way in these demographics, which is intellectually dishonest. It also fails to look at different races: it only classifies things as white or non-white. No other race is treated this way for the demographics, so again with the intellectual dishonesty. It also fails to distinguish between majority, minority, and plurality. It also fails to distinguish between absolute numbers and percentages -- a trick for fooling gullible white nationalists into believing that a smaller percentage means a lower white population . . . which it doesn't. Logic fails #4-8.

No one said TOTAL individual autonomy. Autonomy was word you chose. Auto means "self." Autonomy is SELF rule. Collective "autonomy," such as racial autonomy, is a self contradiction. Logic fail #9.

You used more than two words. I addressed your words.

Nothing, so long as it is voluntary and not forced.

I do not share that superstition.

if you refer to my previous two posts, I went into detail.

Not if your previous posts are indication, and you certainly don't know as much as my wife does about it and she's been laughing at your posts.

 

Racist is overused. White nationalists exist. There is one in this thread. There are a few in PF. Nationwide there aren't many of them and most are harmless, but they've killed more cops than BLM has and more people in general than antifa has.

 

The majority voted for Clinton? Does that include all the dead voters and illegals that voted for her? Even if you're right there is clearly a political fracturing of this nation that democracy has an impossible task of finding a solution to.

It is clear that there are large segments of the population unhappy with the current state of things myself included and when you get enough of it there will be those seeking to break away.

Before 1965 a majority of immigration was from European nations, now we have immigration primarily from Central America, South America, Africa, The Middle East, and Asia.

Do you believe all of that to be a good thing?

I would argue that the number of legal foreign immigrants is just as damaging as the illegal ones, we can't even take care of our own citizens or people yet we keep adding new millions every year. This will only end up in disaster.

There are many attitudes, beliefs, and perceptions regarding illegal immigration where you can't account for all of them so don't sit there pretending that you can.

It goes on, and on.......


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States#Legal_history

 

...Continuing conversation with YardMeat.....

I am quite fluid or malleable in regarding who I view is a white European and not in comparison to others that hold the same if not similar ideological points of views. I for instance believe a person that 7/8 white European is assimilative in many cases on an individual case by case basis. I of course get flak from purists on such conversations.

I think the way we calculate demographics statistically is just fine where there are only small discrepancies involved. For instance, why do they count individuals from the Middle East or Latin Americas as being white? Some of them might be of a Persian Aryan or Spaniard background of course but many of them are clearly not. If anything I think the white population in statistical population demographics is a lot smaller than the official numbers suggest with discrepancies like that alone.

So apparently you never heard of collective autonomy in that people regard the much larger segments outside of themselves as an extension of their own selves. You clearly have a hard time understanding collective identity as most people do these days sadly.

For me your radical individualism reads like a horrifying Ayn Rand novel.

There is no contradiction with collective or even national autonomy, individual autonomy on the other embracing radical forms of individualism however....

And if the rest of the nation doesn't allow voluntary racial or cultural separatism?

Libertarians or neoconservatives are a funny lot, you act like everything is voluntary in your perfect idealistic world but we both know that isn't true.

I'm so happy you allow your wife to speak on your behalf. If we get into a subject where race, ethnicity, genetics, and phenotypes arise I suppose we'll have to put that to the test.

Well I don't share your social utopian vision of all races, ethnicities, and cultures living in close proximity to one another either as far as silly superstitious beliefs are concerned.