Who is responsible for so many cops killing innocent people?

You can play your silly game of trying to excuse abuses by cops. It does not change the fact that cops kill 500-1,200 (maybe more) innocent people every year.

 

In Crawfords case, the 911 caller blatantly lied in the 911 call. The WalMart video covers the entire event, including what the 911 caller saw and what he reported he saw.

But the fact remains that open carry is LEGAL in that part of Ohio, the cops themselves were NOT threatened by Crawford (the toy was pointed at the floor when the cops confronted him, his other hand held a phone to his ear), and the cops shot Crawford almost immediately when confronting him.

Whether Crawford had a real gun or a toy, he was not breaking any laws and did not threaten anybody. Even the investigating attorney has stated so.

And that is exactly the sentiment that the banners are preying upon. They take a common sense idea that realistic toy guns should not be pointed at people, and explode that idea into the fear that everything having to do with guns is evil.

Think about your comment:

"no good will come from you walking around a walmart with a toy gun"​

WalMart sells toy guns. Your comment implies WalMart should not sell toy guns, and people should not buy toy guns. The extrapolation of that idea is that playing with toy guns is dangerous, playing cops & robbers is dangerous, the mere sight of guns -toy or real - is dangerous. That's the slope that banners want you to slide down. The end result is a social shift to the belief that guns and everything about them is bad - from real guns used in crime to toy guns in a toy store to a poptart bitten into the shape of an L.

That social shift will take time, but by eroding society's feelings about guns is how the banners hope to implement heir gun ban.

 

Its always the same arguement from you - its always the victims fault. As soon as the person makes any move no matter how trivial that the cop interprets as "resisting", then the cop has carte blanche to do whatever he wants including killing the person.

The cop is trained to apprehend a person in a safe manner. Garner should not have died. The fact that Graner did die at the hands of cops is a failure by the cops. Its that simple. No degree of distraction and blaming the victim changes the fact that cops actions killed the man who should not have died.

 

Assuming your description is correct, the man assaulted someone (in this case a cop), the man altered a tool to look like a real gun and with the intention of victimizing someone. The man had criminal intent and took premeditated action to exercise his criminal intent. He was not "innocent".

 

the people who call 911 and describe a suspect as "black".

Garner, Brown and Rice all had 911 called on them.

 

This needs to be addressed and corrected. I resoundingly OBJECT to the militarization of police. It makes me want to confront the man who holds an AR on me. I NATURALLY RESPOND WITH OVERWHELMING LETHAL FORCE. Emphasis on OVERWHELMING LETHAL FORCE. I WILL kill you. I WILL make absolutely certain that YOU are DEAD. I understand DEATH. I have never done this to anyone. I WILL do it to YOU. And then we will deal with the rest of the situation. This cannot stand as the deal that we accept between LEO and Citizen.
GD I genuinely HATE to live in a time when this matters. So be it. DO NOT try me. I know at the core of my being that I am a good man. Don't put your life in the way of that.

 

I still don't buy the "blatantly lied" part in the Walmart story.... but I will have to acquiesce as I am firewalled out of that particular story link currently and don't know enough about it.


but I'm not saying Walmart should ban toy guns... put it in a buggy, instead of actining like you are on a hunt is step one....

listen, though... I'm 100% pro-2nd amendment and gun rights.... but I also think if you act like an idiot with a gun (or toy gun) you can't act all surprised when you are treated like an idiot with a gun.

open carry laws are strange.... there's a difference between carrying a holstered sidearm that visible, and a high powered hunting rifle slung over your shoulder in Walmart....


as far as toy gun makers go.... I don't know what the answer is. Since making real looking guns can be a problem (through no fault of the toy company) and 'fake' looking guns can ALSO be a problem (also through no fault of the toy company)..... there is no right answer.


you can't pass a law that says "make a more fake looking gun" because there are people that will make real guns look that way on purpose.
it's not as simple as "paint an orange tip on a fake gun" because there are plenty of real guns with orange tips.


but you also can't outlaw making toy guns, either or blame an airsoft gun maker because some dumb ass took his airsoft gun into a kwik-ee mart and had the cops called on him where he ended up shot dead.

 

To everyone else.....we have another leftist refusing to do math with his own stats because it forces them to accept reality.
math is a b eye tch isnt battle?

 

I don't like the idea of a militarized police force "protecting and serving the SH-- out of you" either. But the stories that are getting pushed are never of a kid walking home from church.... it always involves a situation like the kid was attacking the cop, or the guy was resisting arrest and died from complications from his poor health, or pointed a toy gun.....


I do get very upset when I hear of cops busting in the wrong house and someone ends up dead..... But the recent rash of police incidents is trying to paint a criminal as an innocent citizen are garbage.

 

So, if a guy beats you upon your head and steals your money at an ATM machine, is he too innocent? Now, he is innocent as he hasn't been convicted yet, but he did just comitt a crime.

 

You're finally catching on. One thing that has been lost in this country is the idea of personal responsibility. The cops were as much of murderers in this situation as McDonald's is every time an overweight person dies of heart attack after eating a double bacon cheeseburger every day. We were born with a free will in this country. We have the right to make our own decisions. Mr. Garner made a decision on that day just as that hypothetical overweight person did when they ordered that last double bacon cheeseburger from McDonald's before they had a heart attack. Are we going to charge McDonald's with murder?

I say this again. When the officer went to grab Mr. Garners wrist to handcuff him, what do you call that? That is apprehension in it's safest and most simplistic manner. It was Mr. Garner who made the conscious decision to pull his arms away and deny being apprehended in a safe manner. Mr. Garner knew what he was doing, he knew that the officers were not going to go away. He chose to fight. You cannot blame the police for the fact that Mr. Garner was overweight, had heart disease among other things. They did not know that, only Mr. Garder did.

 

First, I am definitely not a leftist, but solidly in the Tea Party camp. The issue of out of control cops crosses party boundaries.

Second, its your stats that I disagree with as they are designed to obfuscate. Whine all you want to, it doesn't change the facts that cops are killing far too many innocent people.

 

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/aiyana-stanley-jones-raid/

 

So Garner is suspected of committing a small nonviolent crime (and its still not certain he was committing a crime), believes he is being unfairly targeted and harassed, pulls his hand back, and the cops immediately have permission to kill him.

And your excuse is that the cops did not see (are the cops f***ing blind) Garner was grossly overweight the cops failed to implement specific procedures in the NYPD on how to handle grossly overweight people because of the inherent health issues, and therefore Garner died? Its Garners fault for not having a sign around his neck saying "I am hugely fat, don't put me on my stomach and pile on me".

What you are saying is that a person must obey every order by a cop no matter how illegal or unfair, must submit to being arrested, brought to jail, pay a bond, go to court even if the cop is making up the charges. The cop pays no price for this abuse, in fact the cop gets benefits because many PD's rate cops on the number of arrests, number and severity of charges, and number of convictions.

In other words, the cop is the master and all must obey regardless of the law, justice, fairness. That's slavery.

 

If you are going to continue to argue based off of your emotions than this conversation is over. Since nobody has permission to kill anyone, I will ignore your silly strawman. At that point in time the cops had permission to arrest him. That is what they do, enforce the LAW, which is created by people we elect. You have a problem with the law or the police, there are avenues to deal with that. But you CANNOT resist arrest.

Lot's of people are fat. Lot's of fat people are arrested. Most people, fat or not, do not resist arrest. We can't "let things slide" because someone is overweight. Since medical records are protected, than it is clear that only Mr. Garner knew his entire medical situation and should have known better.

What procedure is that? I want specific patrol guide procedures. I want the section and the sub-section. If you cannot provide, eat (*)(*)(*)(*)ing crow. I am tired of you simply making (*)(*)(*)(*) up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, that is how the law works. There are avenues if you want laws changed or believe that you were treated unfairly. Resisting arrest is NOT one of those avenues. Let me spell this out for you.

YOU CANNOT RESIST ARREST.

The above nonsense doesn't deserve an intelligent response. I'll pretend you didn't say it.

 

You got me there. Good job. Although my point being that all the blacks getting shot by police are not what we would call innocent. All this hype lately about the innocent gentle giant thugee from Ferguson and that other dude from Staten Island.

 

Search N.Y. TAX. LAW § 480-a : NY Code - Section 480-A: Retail dealer and vending machine registration

He would need a license and display it, pay a $1000 fee even if he had no regular place of business.

Search N.Y. TAX. LAW § 1801 : NY Code - Section 1801: Tax fraud acts

What he was doing is tax fraud under NY law.

Search N.Y. TAX. LAW § 1802 : NY Code - Section 1802: Criminal tax fraud in the fifth degree

The first time he was arrested for selling cigarettes he could claim he didn't know and it would have been a Class A Misdemeanor.

Search N.Y. TAX. LAW § 1803 : NY Code - Section 1803: Criminal tax fraud in the fourth degree

Subsequent arrests would Class E Felonies.

It was NYPD #3 in command Philip Banks III that ordered the crack down.

 

between the speculators and the conspiracy theorists and the absentee jury here in this forum, I decided at the onset that I would go with the verdict. However, that being said, no real verdict is in.
My beef is the way they mob has decided things. ....idiots....

 

Ummm incorrect. You are the only one stating cops are killing too many innocent people. Im still waiting for you to tell us how many cops that is. You made the statement now back it up or lose the argument. Also, Im not the one whining, you are. You've been pissing and moaning about cops killing innocent people but cant even cite your stats. If you cant man up and handle being asked questions about claims you are making then you might want to try what is your favorite pizza or finish these sentence type forums.
The number of cops who killed innocent people according to you is????????__________________________<put number there<<

 

The biggest factor is the people that are hired to be cops. Most people who want to be cops do so because they have psychopathic tendencies.

They are attracted to the job because they see the opportunity to satisfy their addiction to violence and physical confrontation.
Most are ex military who did not get their fill of violence in their tours. Before that most were attracted to violent contact sports and many were schoolyard bullies as children.

Violence can be as addictive as any drug to someone with psychopathic tendencies. In addition many ex military are affected by PTSD which makes them even more unstable when put into stressful situations. Over reactions like shooting children carrying toys can often be the result of the paranoia of PTSD.

Often police will intentionally escalate situations by way of bullying or by being rude and condescending hoping to offend someone so that they will be able to initiate a physical confrontation.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sIC4Bw&usg=AFQjCNHAnmyuzJG95Wlzg0PYjCxDAfnwuQ

The number is not available, because almost all killings are ruled "justifiable" . Who makes these rulings? Well the police do strangely enough.

Police enjoy something called special immunity, in which they cannot be held liable for their killings unless someone can prove they did it with "intent". If they just did it because they are incompetent or because they freak out because of PTSD then they get a free pass.

The scary thing is the number of people killed is not even known because many go unreported as the article above illustrates.
The truth is the government who employs the police do not even consider the injuring or killing of a citizen by the police a crime. It is simply a matter that requires "compensation". Just like in the days of slavery, they will pay a settlement, but in the laws eyes no crime has been committed because the citizen is simply considered property by the government.

 

So you have police convicted based on "feelings"

 

Why? So you can play a stupid game?

This is very simple, you are perfectly satisfied that cops kill 500-1,200 innocent people per year. Since 9/11, that's more than all soldiers killed in the war on terror, and I'll bet you don't like that. Islamists killing Americans in a war zone, you don't like that. Cops killing innocent Americans at home, that you are ok with. Its your cross, wear it with pride.

 

Nope, there are about 400 to 500 citizens killed by cops that are reported, possibly that number again not reported, You did not read the article did you?

 

1200 cops murdered and got away with it? Thats a lie. Cite your sources. Also at no point would I ever agree cops murdering people is ok. I am calling you out on your statement. Cite these 1200 murders or you have lost.