Who's behind The Hoax/Plot/Conspiracy?

I have never stated that global warning is all manmade. But then again I do not discount that were could be a factor that is increasing the change. Thing is it is simply Logical that since it is a proven fact that we have had an effect, a bad one I might add, on every other area of the ecosystem we could be patially to blame. Even discounting that why not look for alternatives, sooner or later fossil fuels will run out, I do not care how long a smart person uses their resources wisely, and why not try and why not add any more issues to the many we already have. Tjhe bigger problem in my view is China and India, while the rest of the world is trying to cut down on their impact they are desperate to become major industrial powers and they do not care how they get there. The model that Europe and the US used to get there will not and cannot be the way they get there, that is proven, the planet simply cannot survive the same method used worldwide. We can either hep them find better methods of getting there, and helping ourselves in the process, or will will all suffer the same fate. I find it interesting that the west coast of the US installed anti-pollution laws and reduce pollution and now those same states are measuring increases in pollution due to the winds bringing Chinas pollution to the US. This is not good, and sticking ones head in the sand and saying it is not so it stupidity, and in the end will leave the world one great big mess that if it continues we will not have to worry about what we leave our grandchildren, there will be nothing left to leave them and that will be that. Sometimes mankind is too smart for his own good, simple as that. Learn now or...................

 

I have no problem looking to the future and looking for alternatives but only in the market instead of government dictate. Alternatives have to be logical, useful, and cost efficient before they can replace abundant and cheap carbon based fuels or it has the adverse affect of slowing down an economy which in turn will make things worse for those that can least afford it. The current CAGW meme is to eliminate cheap fuel with expensive alternatives only and that is based on an unproven hypothesis.

 

Then why not be the first to volunteer to give up your heater and the winter and your AC in the summer, your computer too while we are at it.

 

I forwarded this thread on to mi amigo the climate scientist at NASA. His reply " Now you have some idea of the crackpots we have to deal with every day"

 

LOL, I am sure he is a well known scientist with published papers on CAGW right? If you can't name him, then you are just spewing internet shyte.

 

Except he's a meteorologist. He has climate research interests but that doesn't make him "one of the worlds most premier climate scientists". You haven't even bothered finding what it is he actually does but you've surely managed to pontificate at length about him.

I think lol goes here.

 

So would that mean that all those scientists that contribute to the IPCC that are not climate scientists make the IPCC invalid?

 

No it wouldn't mean that at all.

 

C'mon true patriots, why not just admit that it isn't about science at all but all about values, culture and ideology?

It's not as if it is a BIg Secret.

 

Being critical of bad science is not being "close minded." It's sad when proper criticism is considered "close minded."

blah blah blah. No evidence that anyone is being bullied. Why didn't Bengtsson provide it when asked by the media?

 

That would be totally incorrect. It is about hubris, money, and propaganda.

 

There is no difference between a true college educated meteorologist and a climate scientist. Dr. Mann's official title at Penn State is Distinguished Professor of Meteorology. People try meteorology/climatology word game is new speak designed to fool stupid people. While it may have some relevance when discussion of TV weatherman who like to go by the term meteorologist it has no validity what so ever when referring to academics where climatology and meteorology are interchangeable terms as exemplified by Dr. Mann's official title.

As to Dr. Bengtsson's expertise his primary areas of study are the hydrological cycle and climate/energy modeling. Here is his publication history.

Gleixner, S., Keenlyside, N., Hodges, K. I., Tseng, W.-L. and Bengtsson, L. (2014) An inter-hemispheric comparison of the tropical storm response to global warming. Climate Dynamics, 42 (7-. pp. 2147-2157. ISSN 0930-7575 doi: 10.1007/s00382-013-1914-6
2013

Bengtsson, L. and Schwartz, S. E. (2013) Determination of a lower bound on Earth’s climate sensitivity. Tellus Series B: Chemical and Physical Meteorology, 65. ISSN 1600-0889 doi: 10.3402/tellusb.v65i0.21533

Froude, L. S.R., Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K. I. (2013) Atmospheric predictability revisited. Tellus A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography, 65. 19022. ISSN 1600-0870 doi: 10.3402/tellusa.v65i0.19022

Bengtsson, L., Hodges, K., Koumoutsaris, S., Zahn, M. and Berrisford, P. (2013) The changing energy balance of the polar regions in a warmer climate. Journal of Climate, 26 (10). pp. 3112-3129. ISSN 1520-0442 doi: 10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00233.1

Bengtsson, L. (2013) What is the climate system able to do ‘on its own’? Tellus B, 65. 20189. ISSN 0280-6509 doi: 10.3402/tellusb.V65i0.20189

Crutzen, P. J., Bengtsson, L. and Ramanathan, V. (2013) Fate of mountain glaciers in the Anthropocene: a report by the working group commissioned by the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Scripta Varia, 118. The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Vatican City.

Semedo, A., Weisse, R., Behrens, A., Sterl, A., Bengtsson, L. and Günther, H. (2013) Projection of global wave climate change towards the end of the 21st century. Journal of Climate. ISSN 1520-0442 doi: 10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00658.1

Bengtsson, L., Bonnet, R.-M., Grinspoon, D., Koumoutsaris, S., Lebonnois, S. and Titov, D., eds. (2013) Towards understanding the climate of Venus. ISSI Scientific Report Series, 11. Springer, pp185. ISBN 9781461450641
2012

Bengtsson, L. (2012) Foreword: International Space Science Institute (ISSI) workshop on observing and predicting Earth’s energy flows. Surveys in Geophysics, 33 (3-4). pp. 333-336. ISSN 1573-0956 doi: 10.1007/s10712-012-9194-y (This issue: Observing and Modeling Earth's Energy Flows)

Bengtsson, L., Koumoutsaris, S., Bonnet, R.-M., Herland, E.-A., Huybrechts, P., Johannessen, O.M., Milne, G., Oerlemans, J., Ohmura, A., Ramstein, G. and Woodworth, P., eds. (2012) The Earth's cryosphere and sea level change. Space Science Series of ISSI, 40. Springer, pp343. ISBN 9789400720626

Bengtsson, L., Koumoutsaris, S., Bonnet, R. -M., Allan, R. P., Fröhlich, C., Heintzenberg, J., Ingmann, P., Kandel, R., Loeb, N. G., Soden, B. and Trenberth, K. E. (2012) Observing and Modeling Earth's Energy Flows. Space Sciences Series of ISSI, 41. Springer. ISBN 9789400743267
2011

Bengtsson, L. (2011) Foreword: International Space Science Institute (ISSI) workshop on the Earth’s cryosphere and sea level change. Surveys in Geophysics, 32 (4-5). pp. 315-317. ISSN 1573-0956 doi: 10.1007/s10712-011-9136-0 (special Issue: ISSI Workshop on the Earth's Cryosphere and Sea Level Change)

Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K. I. (2011) On the evaluation of temperature trends in the tropical troposphere. Climate Dynamics, 36 (3-4). pp. 419-430. ISSN 1432-0894 doi: 10.1007/s00382-009-0680-y

Champion, A. J., Hodges, K. I., Bengtsson, L. O., Keenlyside, N. S. and Esch, M. (2011) Impact of increasing resolution and a warmer climate on extreme weather from NH extra-tropical cyclones. Tellus Series A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanograph, 63 (5). pp. 893-906. ISSN 1600-0870 doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0870.2011.00538.x

Bengtsson, L., Koumoutsaris, S. and Hodges, K. (2011) Large-scale surface mass balance of ice sheets from a comprehensive atmospheric model. Surveys in Geophysics, 32 (4-5). pp. 459-474. ISSN 1573-0956 doi: 10.1007/s10712-011-9120-8

Bengtsson, L., Hodges, K. I., Koumoutsaris, S., Zahn, M. and Keenlyside, N. (2011) The changing atmospheric water cycle in polar regions in a warmer climate. Tellus Series A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography, 63 (5). pp. 907-920. ISSN 1600-0870 doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0870.2011.00534.x

Hodges, K. I., Lee, R. W. and Bengtsson, L. (2011) A comparison of extra-tropical cyclones in recent re-analyses; ERA-Interim, NASA MERRA, NCEP CFSR and JRA-25. Journal of Climate, 24 (1. pp. 4888-4906. ISSN 1520-0442 doi: 10.1175/2011JCLI4097.1
2010

Bengtsson, L. (2010) Aksel Wiin-Nielsen (1924–2010). EOS transactions, 91 (43). pp. 395-396. ISSN 0096-3941 doi: 10.1029/2010EO430006

Champion, A., Hodges, K. and Bengtsson, L. (2010) Extreme precipitation and climate change: the potential impacts on flooding. In: BHS Third International Symposium, Managing the Consequences of a Changing Global Environment, 19-23 July 2010, Newcastle University. (Proceedings of the BHS Third International Symposium)

Landsea, C. W., Vecchi, G. A., Bengtsson, L. and Knutson, T. R. (2010) Impact of duration thresholds on Atlantic tropical cyclone counts*. Journal of Climate, 23 (10). pp. 2508-2519. ISSN 1520-0442 doi: 10.1175/2009JCLI3034.1

Bengtsson, L. (2010) The global atmospheric water cycle. Environmental Research Letters, 5 (2). 025202. ISSN 1748-9326 doi: 10.1088/1748-9326/5/2/025202
2009

Bengtsson, L., Hodges, K. I. and Keenlyside, N. (2009) Will Extratropical Storms Intensify in a Warmer Climate? Journal of Climate, 22 (9). pp. 2276-2301. ISSN 1520-0442 doi: 10.1175/2008JCLI2678.1
2008

Bauer, H. -S., Wulfmeyer, V. and Bengtsson, L. (200 The representation of a synoptic-scale weather system in a thermodynamically adjusted version of the ECHAM4 general circulation model. Meteorology and Atmospheric Physics, 99 (3-4). pp. 129-153. ISSN 0177-7971 (Print) 1436-5065 (Online) doi: DOI: 10.1007/s00703-007-0275-2

Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K.I. (200 Comment on "Is the number of North Atlantic tropical cyclones significantly underestimated prior to the availability of satellite observations?" by Edmund K. M. Chang and Yanjuan Guo. Geophysical Research Letters, 35. L09810. ISSN 0094-8276 doi: DOI: 10.1029/2007GL032251

Kuzmina, S.I., Johanessenn, O.M., Bengtsson, L., Aniskina, O.G. and Bobylev, L.P. (200 High northern latitude surface air temperature: comparison of existing data and creation of a new gridded data set 1900-2000. Tellus Series A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography, 60 (2). pp. 289-304. ISSN 0280-6495 doi: DOI: 10.1111/j.1600-0870.2008.00303.x

Foelsche, U., Kirchengast, G., Steiner, A., Kornblueh, L., Manzini, E. and Bengtsson, L. (200 An observing system simulation experiment for climate monitoring with GNSS radio occulation data: setup and testbed study. Journal of Geophysical Research, 113 (D11). ISSN 0148-0227 doi: doi: 10.1029/2007JD009231
2007

Bengtsson, L., Hodges, K. I., Esch, M., Keenlyside, N., Kornblueh, L., Luo, J.-J. and Yamagata, T. (2007) How may tropical cyclones change in a warmer climate? Tellus Series A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography, 59 (4). pp. 539-561. ISSN 0280-6495 doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0870.2007.00251.x

Bengtsson, L., Hodges, K. I. and Esch, M. (2007) Tropical cyclones in a T159 Resolution Global Climate Model: comparison with observations and re-analyses. Tellus Series A: Dynamic Meteorology and Oceanography, 59 (4). pp. 396-416. ISSN 0280-6495 doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0870.2007.00236.x

Bengtsson, L. (2007) Tropical cyclones in a warmer climate. WMO Bulletin, 56 (3). pp. 196-203. ISSN 0042-9767

Froude, L. S. R., Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K. I. (2007) Storm tracking and ensemble prediction. In: Nonlinear Dynamics in Geosciences. Springer, New York, pp. 101-120. ISBN 0387349170

Bengtsson, L., Arkin, P., Berrisford, P., Bougeault, P., Folland, C. K., Gordon, C., Haines, K., Hodges, K. I., Jones, P., Kallberg, P., Rayner, N., Simmons, A. J., Stammer, D., Thorne, P.W., Uppala, S. and Vose, R. S. (2007) The need for a dynamical climate reanalysis. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 88 (4). pp. 495-501. ISSN 1520-0477 doi: 10.1175/BAMS-88-4-495

Froude, L. S. R., Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K. I. (2007) The predictability of extratropical storm tracks and the sensitivity of their prediction to the observing system. Monthly Weather Review, 135 (2). pp. 315-333. ISSN 0027-0644 doi: 10.1175/MWR3274.1

Froude, L. S. R., Bengtsson, L. and Hodges, K. I. (2007) The prediction of extratropical storm tracks by the ECMWF and NCEP ensemble prediction systems. Monthly Weather Review, 135 (7). pp. 2545-2567. ISSN 0027-0644 doi: 10.1175/MWR3422.1

It goes on and on and on
http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/users/users/1788

You should learn not to make (*)(*)(*)(*) up! You cant win this. You are arguing a false premiss and even if you weren't you aren't smart enough to play in my league.

 

You aren't being critical of science. You are engaging in character assassination based on association. You have labeled him an apostate for daring to associate with the "heretics". Its a pure witch hunt mentality on your part and proves my point.

Because they are colleagues who communicated it in private. Enough bridges have already been burned.

 

Here's a scientific experiment for you. See if you can find a way to arrange these two words to describe someone nearby.

Less.

Clue.

You must have a fair bit invested in some kind of win given the ego brandishing you've gone in for throughout the thread. It's all yours. Don't spend it all in one candy store.

 

So, does that mean that the people that believe the IPCC are clueless since most of the contributors are not Climate Scientists?

 

Done worry I wont report you for trolling.

However here is a simple word game for you. Dr. Michael E. Mann is Distinguished Professor of Meteorology at Penn State, fellow of the American Meteorological Society.

In academics there is no difference between a meteorologist and a climatologist.

I told you that you cant win this. You are not in my league. Quit while you are behind.

 

This is the second peculiar question you've asked in this vein.

I've taken issue with Windigo's claims and found he or she to be more or less clueless wrt what they're proposing. There's no argument from me that Bengtsson is clueless, I'm sure he's anything but. I'm not qualified to have an opinion as to the IPCC scientist's findings so don't have one. I do, however, accept that the majority of climate science, which includes meteorologists like Bengtsson, have concluded that AGW is real. That's science's best guess and it's good enough for me. It should be good enough for everyone but there are always those few who are invested in being mistaken about all kinds of things. It's not exactly an uncommon human trait to be wrong. If the majority of scientists change their minds and say they were mistaken and there is no AGW and have sufficient evidence to support their new claims then that becomes science's best guess and will be good enough for me.

I don't pay any attention to any ideological arguments, though. They're corrosive no matter who's promoting them.

 

I don't worry about being reported either online or offline and I have no interest in winning or losing. You do so it's your win.

I'm mildly interested in your overbearing need to somehow diminish me with phrases like "you are not in my league" but only in as much as I find it amusing and it makes me curious about the psychology behind it.

Little league, is it?

Meteorology and climatology are different disciplines. There isn't an easier way to explain that obvious fact. You can post reams of 'evidence' to the contrary if you must but I won't waste my time reading any of it. I already understand much of each field is taught as though they're one, especially since the advent of concerns about the environment and the bringing together of different disciplines to study it, but that doesn't alter the simple fact they're different disciplines. Nor does it alter the fact that inaccurately describing Bengtsson is a basic and telling error. It's primarily the ideologically driven right wing who mis-describe him that way, other journals describe him accurately as a meteorologist.

 

No they are not! In academics the terms are interchangeable. I have proven it very simply using the most well known US climatologists/meteorologist Dr. Micheal Mann who's official title is meteorologist. You simply have an ignorant definition of what a meteorologist is in academics. But your ignorance is not my problem.

And I'm not surprised you didn't look at Dr. Bengtsson publication history because that would show that you are wrong and simply making (*)(*)(*)(*) up for lack of a better argument. So when you said this

You hadn't even bothered to check is publication history to see if you were correct or not. You made it up and hoped it was true.

I think lol goes here.

 

We appear to have arrived at an impasse.

In the interests of good forum etiquette and my not wanting to cause you a heart attack I propose a solution.

Since you’re citing Mann as the authority I’ll go with that and concede that meteorology and climatology are one and the same and you concede that AGW is real.

Deal?

 

Pointing out true believers hypocrisy is not the same thing as conceding anything.

 

I seem unable to understand your posts that well.

What hypocrisy?

Is a true believer...hmm...a believer in truth?

On wider scale I don't really buy into hypocrisy as a negative because I've yet to meet anyone who isn't a hypocrite about something or other. It seems to me to be part of simply being a human. We've pretty talented at spotting it in others, though.

 

True believers believe Mann but ridicule Dr. Bengtsson because he apparently is not qualified.

 

Is anyone ridiculing him? I haven't noticed but I'm not paying much attention. I have noticed his work in this case hasn't been well received but that happens all the time in science if it's not up to snuff. Is there really a controversy or is it a manufactured controversy because certain groups find that useful?

 

I concede he is well known. That doesn't make him right.