"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

Dude - the economic tragedy was caused during the BUSH administration. Not only that, but Republicans have worked to block measures oriented to preventing that same tragedy from happening AGAIN!!

Now you want to moan about those who worked to put out the fire.

If you want to base your arguments on "whataboutism" at least pick something that you understand.

 

When properly adjusted for traffic accidents and smoking and violence the US medical outcomes are at the top.

 

NO THEY ARE NOT the THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN OUR COUNTRY IS MEDICAL MISTAKES.About half a million people every year die because of medical errors.

 

There are many first world countries that smoke more and first world countries that smoke less.

And, only Uruguay, Venezuela and Zimbabwe have fewer gun deaths per capita - although it looks like they didn't count Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. Can you think of a common thread between those countries??

Maybe you could cite something that suggests we come out "on top".

 

This is a strongly disputed number.

 

The people who pay 3 trill for healthcare now will pay the 3 trill for medicare for all. Does somebody here think Sweden or China pays for our healthcare?

The same people who buy products that prices reflect the added costs of providing healthcare to thier employees, The costs of medicare, the costs of medicaid, the 35% subsidy of private heath insurance through tax deductions, The millions of government workers. The people who pay monthly premiums, The people who pay out of pocket, the people who pay co-pays.You know everybody that pays for it now.

 

Atlas, Scott W.. In Excellent Health: Setting the Record Straight on America's Health Care (Hoover Institution Press Publication (Hardcover)) (Kindle Locations 926-953). Chicago Distribution. Kindle Edition.

 

Exactly.....
The system requires unqualified middle class workers to also pay private insurance. Single payer controls the cost. It does in every other country that has it. Plus they have better outcomes because the private sector exerts almost no control over obesity and diabetes, the single biggest preventable HC cost. Neither the profit driven fast food industry nor the profit driven health insurance industry is interested in doing anything for preventative care and controlling costs.

 

That’s an uninformed statement. Medicare is non profit. Dah. Healthcare costs are also group dependent and the larger the group, the lower the cost. Medicare for all hasthe largest potential group policy, the entire nation. Plus, Medicare for all is driven to pay less by using preventative care measures.

 

Apparently Americans are too stupid to devise a system like Australia or Israel or Saudi Arabia or Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland etc.

 

Exactly. They don’t have anything like our Republican Party which promotes profit driven HC by their donors.

 

Some nincompoop will show up in a minute or two screaming "Communism".

 

Yup. The same guy who supports Trumps dictators. The same guy who supports voter suppression. They don’t complain about some of the biggest 20 plus corporations that pay zero taxes for any public HC because of the GOP debt ridden economy.

 

It just shows how those on the right on bankrupt on healthcare. If you raise corporate taxes they scream that we are just raising taxes on ourselves as those costs are reflected in the purchase price. But healthcare costs are not reflected in those prices we pay, Sweden pays those costs. Mayor Pete yesterday saying teachers and firefighters want the coverage they have, well no **** as the government/people pays 90% of the costs of thier employees insurance. If they paid closer to the average of 30% and had $500/1,000 deductible and $50 co-pays for visits and drugs they would feel different.

What was funny yesterday was when biden said that the people who have private insurance are happy with thier plan, WTF. I don't know anyone outside of government employ who is happy with there plan. Now I am sure 10% of the 170 mill are happy, The one who are employed with union negotiated plans, compnies owned by european busineses, and the socially responsible tech companies.

You know why a lot of people don't start thier own business, they need the health insurance for thier families, why people don't go from company to company the same, less now with pre existing coverage though. Why small business does not hire full time and only part time employees or why they don't expand at all. Why some businesses try to do right by thier employees and get hurt being in comp with other companies that think employees are just another asset owned.

They say small business in the engine, well lets puts some gas in that engine.

 

My daughter in law worked for a German pharmaceutical company for years. He health insurance was amazing. But, then they had all sorts of perks..

 

While your assumption is partly accurate- it's also way short.

If 2/3 of the people are paying for health insurance, and you enact "Medicare for all", you have just added the equivalent of 50% load to the expenses. What's more, that 50% is probably the lease capable of paying in more tax dollars. So- who is going to come up with the additional 50% increase in costs?

It should also be obvious that the total cost of healthcare, leaving out political manipulations and the lawyers mining it for gold, would be the same per person- or for each of 1 million or 100 million people. So why is having it universal and compelled a good idea financially? That depends on WHO is going to benefit, because it will not be an act of equality- but one of welfare and re-distribution of wealth. In other words, a socialistic tax scheme.

The real beneficiaries are two-fold- One, those who aren't motivated to care for themselves and won't or can't buy health insurance- and who typically want some one else to pay their way.
Two- The politicians who are willing to buy the votes of those people by promoting the very belief that has kept them down... "Somebody else will pay for you".

Weak people simply can't support a strong nation- and the more we make government a "Nanny" for weakness, the weaker we become. Government should be supporting end encouraging independence and strength, not attacking and weakening it.

 

I sold electronic components for the last 15 years of my career, The european companies that had facilities over here like Allcatel. Nokia and such all had better fringes than domestic companies. At trade shows the Europeans thought they treated American workers poorly!

 

That is crap. So we are the only economically strong nation in the world since we are the only nations that does not have universal health coverage. We spend 3 trill a year now. Just because 1/2 of the expense is hidden in the price of goods we pay does not mean that the cost is not borne. We pay 50% more of our GDP for healthcare than any other western country. We pay 2x as much per person. so if our healthcare was paid for by a hidden tax at the checkout counter and not a business expense passed on to consumers it is something different? It is still money out of my pocket. I pay 2.30 for gas, I don't pay 1.80 for gas and 50 cents for tax when I fill up. How does health insurance companies paying out 80% of what they take in make our country healthier?

 

Wonder why American companies can't afford to be generous in their treatment of employees?

 

LOLOL.. Cost shifting will continue and it hasn't worked for 40 years.

 

It would be so helpful if more people understood how the prices they pay result from things besides the actual cost of services. In health insurance, there are several contributing factors that are massive. I think the worst is the costs of medical liability insurance. Hospitals, doctors, pharma companies- all pay massive amounts in insurance. Why? because out system thinks that when something does not come out right, it is always the fault of whomever has the most insurance- and so the mercenaries we call tort lawyers seek to prove they were the cause of you problem. Among these is the physician known as OB/Gyn, who deliver babies. Babies have been being born by the same basic process for thousands of years, what has changed is basically for the better. However, the vulnerability of targeting an OB/Gyn as responsible for any child's health problem means going for a lifetime of compensation, so lawyers love the big buck potential- and insurance companies have to charge fees to cover the risk. They charge those fees to the doctors and hospitals who deliver babies- and those places must build those outrageous costs into YOUR BILL. In some states, the malpractice insurance for an OB/Gyn can be $200,000.00 annually. That means if that doctor delivers 100 babies a year- he must bill each patient $2,000 over the costs of his services and overhead, to pay just the malpractice premium. The hospital must do the same on their part of your bill. So must any pharma company that provides any kind of supporting medicine or equipment that is part of the process. "THEY" are not paying the bill. YOU are.

Politicians love to tell you how they will get justice for you by making someone else pay up. Invariably- the "someone else" turns out to be all of us- BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ELSE.

This

 

In other words you are going to move medical cost to taxes. But taxing the 1% at a rate 100% won't make much of a dent in costs. The health industry is about the same size as overall federal spending. You won't be able to double federal spending without very serious consequences. The last place you want any management handled is federal government.

 

True. NOBODY mismanages as well as the government, and only the government can survive doing that because they think the supply of money is endless. OUR money.

 

yes, there are many reasons healthcare is so expensive. But health insurance companies do nothing to lower costs, they just pass those costs on the customer. They take $1 of every $5 they take in for overhead and profit. that does nothing for the sick or the provider. Go to a doctor's office and ask how many charges got denied for inncorect paperwork, no prior clearance, or tests that they don't think is needed.

A big problem that I see is that doctors own the testing facilities now. They require more tests to get paid more money. It is like taking a car to the mechanic and telling them just to fix it. Who determines what tests are needed, boards of doctors. My private Cardiologist got paid for stress tests every two years on his machine, my new doctor that sends me out to an outside place for testing says every three years even though I am now 5 years older.

People on the right harp on personal accountability for your care, And I think Medicare for all should have a level of responsibility. If you are more than 20% overweight, I would have a co-pay, you smoke, you have a co-pay, you drink, you have a co-pay. You don't get a flu shot, you have a co-pay. People that go home instead of rehab get paid. If your wife has to stay home for two weeks to take care of you, so that you don't have to go to the rehab, great pay her. Likewise hospice, pay the family to keep them out of nursing homes at that charge $10,000 a month. Doctors getting golf trips to vegas, to hawk drugs.

 

Huh? The weathest 1% make more than the bottom 90% combined. The us total income is 19trill, you tax the wealthiest at 50% you get 5 trill. which is two trill more that what we spend on healthcare. Now I don't advocate taxing them 50% percent, but your statement made no sense.