Who's who in the "government" of Ukraine. part 1

On the other hand, a lot of whitewashing of role of Stephan Bandera is going on in the Internet. Wikipedia is edited. Nevertheless, information on the WWII crimes committed by Ukrainian nationalists led by Stephan Bandera can be found in public libraries and in the Internet: http://www.hnn.us/article/122778
As usual, truth is the first victim, when war starts. Propaganda war is aimed to underlain morale of the enemy and misinform public opinion. All goes. Therefore, everyone have to read it critically and trace course of events. Even in history diligence and scientifically selected documentary materials are important like in any area of knowledge.

 

Of course, they are not in a hurry with elections. Perhaps, they wait for reinforcement from the West and rely on intimidation and suppression of public in Ukraine. However, Ukrainians have a powerful ally - Russia and they already tasted their life "improvements" under new government. Time is working against Maidan government. They are already giving up, buying some time, but it is not going to help.

 

Should we be getting our information from the rt aka the russian ministry of propaganda instead? The russian supporters are rooting for overt imperialistic military conquest and authoritarianism and laughably labeling others criminals and fascists while propagating their hitlerite big lies, it would be laughable if it wasn't so disgusting.

 

What happened to you the Part II of your post about Who is who? It seems it vanished, I could not find it. The pictures were very impressive. Now, those Bandera worshipers are defending Jews in Ukraine and editing Wikipedia.

 

Stalin was a Hitler collaborationist only he didnt end up in a concentration camp.

 

I agree. Your argument isn't necessarily inconsistent with mine. The potential political capital gained is mutual

 

I hope you know how Hitler ended. Unfortunately, his Germany ended very bad, too. Stalin was seeking for some cooperation with Hitler's, but Hitler had a different plan for Russia. Then, Stalin was forced collaborating with GB and USA. y. Bandera was a small fish in the rest of that part of history, but he was quite stinky and his bad smell has spread far away, because of the Maidan government in Kiev. Good or bad, but history retains records on every important participant. Much of this material can be found in a local public library (a good piece of socialism in our country, by the way).

 

I think there is a difference in argument

I said

to which you replied

So let's deal more with your post now I am on my computer rather than mobile which presents limitations. I'll take it in bits

Russia certainly are pushing this avenue. They also intend by this on getting 'progressives' on side.

I am not sure what you are talking about here. It certainly was not anything I was speaking about.

No that is not the case at all. Russia has been soliciting them for quite some time and they her. It looks rather that Putin has been deliberately building up contacts with them primarily to weaken the EU

http://demdigest.net/blog/europes-far-right-putins-western-allies/

and it would be silly to forget that Russia turns a blind eye to orchestrated attacks on gays or anyone who does not appear white no doubt why Stormfront appear to have more allegiance with them than with the supposed neo nazi's/fascists in Ukraine. I found a site with gruesome details about this earlier on my phone but cannot find it now. All turned a blind eye to by the state.

This article while being presented by Republicans gives a strong idea of the politics beneath the surface in Russia http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-us-world-news/350681-russica-secessionist-strategy-exposed.html

The irony of this is Putin trying to call the Ukraine as neo fascist when Russia is more so

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-fascist-coup-grassroots-movement?CMP=twt_gu

I would suggest that the calling of the Ukrainians in such a way was more than anything to get 'progressives' on side. or see http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/ukraines-phantom-neo-nazi-menace/359650/. Mind you that article I think over exaggerates the lack of antisemitism in Ukraine. Other articles I have looked at confirm that there is no increased antisemitism since the revolution and that Jews are not scared.

Before the supposed free election in the Crimea all media except for Russian media was turned off. The people of Crimea were then taught that Ukraine had become a fascist neo nazi state. I trust you know this happened...and even more concerning when we find that the people Russia has been courting in the west are the far right. The values which this concerns can be seen in this thread http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...putin-culture-war-decadent-west-buchanan.html

I was interested in what he was talking about. Still have not worked it out to be honest but I think possibly more to do with where his allegiance is - that is European far right parties allied with Russia hoping to bring down the EU and bring fascism back to Europe and isolate America. Now regardless of arguments with the US, UK governments and so on, this is not what I want.

If that is the case I would suggest such 'progressives' have stopped being progressive now they are hand in hand with the far right. I don't hence agree with you. I just think you are failing to notice the bigger picture and are in reality being exploited by Russia.

 

Look back over the thread. Your first quote is NOT what I replied to and you are going on a divergent tangent with much of the rest. I think we are talking at crossed purposes.

 

You are right.I got the wrong quote but I don't think it would.make much difference to my reply. Why do you think we are talking at cross purposes.

 

I more or less agree with your analysis. To clarify, I think that Russia was wrong to have illegally annexed Crimea. I also think that the referendum was a farce. I think that proportionately there are probably about as many fascists in Ukraine as there are in Russia. Both are very unpleasant regimes. I also think that the E.U as a project has moved away from the worthy impulses of the kind that were sold to the British people when they voted to be part of the common market. In this sense, it has, in my view, become part of an expansionist project which many people feel uncomfortable with. Consequently, anti-Europeans like Farage are consciously exploiting this unease for their own cynical political ends. So naturally, this puts the far-right in a potentially difficult and contradictory ideological position. Historically, the far-right have taken up all manner of unprincipled political positions as a result of their jumping on populist bandwagons. Farage, is no exception. You just have had to have listened to his debate with Clegg to have realized that he is a cynical opportunist, particularly as he played to the gallery with his pro-Putin rhetoric. Playing the E.U off against Russia as the means to disparage the former, is about as cynical and opportunistic as it gets.