Why Are Tariffs Uniquely Disastrous?

You gotta be kidding me:

Was that why the bill was called "The American tax cuts and JOBS act", because it was NOT going to increase JOBS?

Then there is this Trump quote: tax cuts "likely give the typical American household a $4,000 pay raise." "Could be a lot more than that, too,"

Where was that $4,000 to come from if not from increased wages due to hiring pressures?

And those are just two of many examples.

I think we can then also quote you that whatever jobs were created since 2018 that Trump takes credit for had nothing to do with the tax cuts?

 

Success and disaster are relative. Vlady must be positively giddy with his pick.

"Trade wars are good, and easy to win!"
​

​

 

They're more destructive than some other forms of taxation because it increases costs even if the tax isn't collected. Costs go up even when revenue doesn't.

 

How should I know? Maybe it was named by the same person who coined the "Patriot Act" or the "Affordable Care Act."

Listen, you're giving politicians way too much credit for the nuances of this subject. As far as I know, the general claim made by Steven Mnuchin was that the average family making $75,000 in pre-tax wages was paying nearly $4,000 in federal income taxes. TCJA was implemented to mitigate that tax burden; whether or not it did is up for debate.

Let's pretend that you do agree with that position and your federal income tax burden was reduced by $2,000. "Technically," your overall paycheck did increase by $2,000, but that isn't what's actually happening. The only thing that is happening is that your taxable income is reduced through itemizations and deductions.

If a politician claims that your income will increase from the tax cuts, that is not accurate. What they really mean is that your disposable income is increasing, not your wages.

In general, a business will expand when it earns more revenue. Some businesses can also expand when taxes its tax obligations are smaller. It really depends on the nature of the business. For example, TCJA has provisions that affect pass-through businesses, which are just other forms of corporate entities.

However, most people think all Corporations are the same, so they don't understand the nuance behind how the provisions affect these types of businesses.

 

The $4,000 were projected not from the TOTAL tax cut, but from the corporate tax cut alone:

"My Council of Economic Advisers estimates this change alone would likely give the typical American household a $4,000 pay raise,"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ax-reform-will-boost-family-earnings-by-4-000

You can try to spin this all you want, but hiring and jobs was a HUGE part of the propaganda blitz leading up to the tax cuts. Do you really think the American people would have supported the tax cut had they known that pretty much all they would get is stock buybacks? No price reduction, little capital investment, hiring, pay raises..... All the promised things that would help the little guy basically didn;t happen, but the stock buy backs making the fat cats richer certainly did -- as predicted by the opponents of the cuts.

 

No, it wasn't. Jobs creation was merely a byproduct of economic growth; which is merely a byproduct of many other factors. It is never a direct result of the tax cuts. Arguing that "the politicians said x" is not a meaningful argument to have because politicians in the business of providing nuance. If you really want to know what the architects of this plan had in mind, you only need to read their report.

No one ever claimed that tax cuts would directly lead to job growth. That's just wrong. Tax cuts increases disposable incomes; consumers spend their disposable income; spending growth increases revenue/job growth; revenue growth/job growth increase economic growth.

Any explanation other than the following is just wrong.

I don't know what you're talking about. PP&E grew from increased 233 billion in 2018 from 188 billion in 2017. Real Disposable incomes average 4.0% in 2018; versus 2.89% in 2017; and the hires rate for total nonfarm is the highest it has ever been since its recording of these statistics.

"No price reduction?" I don't know what that means. No one ever claimed that tax cuts would reduce prices, either. That's just not how it works.

You know, you really shouldn't assume what the purposes of stock buybacks are if you don't fully understand why firms do it...

 

Do you understand that tariffs are not a first choice, they are a tactic made necessary by the conditions of the current relationship? Obviously not.
Younger generations are proving themselves to be naive, lacking in comprehension and judgement everyday- and simultaneously believing that what ever they imagine can be done.
Those are the morons- detached from real world. Yes, if we were all on the same page, wonderful things could happen, but we are not- and the people we buy from and sell to are competitors who will take every advantage we allow them to. Unfortunately, our past administrations have allowed plenty.

The new left rages about how our own industry exploits them- but are too dumb to see how China and others are exploiting us all. They got in here based on low price- and you, the public, chose to buy cheap instead of buy American. Now, we have given them so much of our manufacturing that our own ability to produce the goods we need no longer exists. That means they no longer need to compete with price, because we have no domestic competitive ability; that we become dependent on their imports. However, they are not dependent on ours in a similar way- and that puts them in the driver's seat. Look around your own house- see if you have any clothes, electronics, small appliances or tools that don't say "made in China" or some other Asian country on them. Things like computers made in the USA are full of Chinese parts.... just assembled here. Once in this condition, the exploitation has leverage beyond low price.

I went to a Duluth trading store a few days ago. You know, the "Buck Naked Underwear" people. Underwear- $18-25. Jeans, $80. High prices on everything... and I could not find a single item that was made in this country. Not one.

The nature of trade, the objective, is not to be beneficial to both parties- it is to profit or meet needs. The seller does not care if you are willing to pay too much; that is your problem. His objective is to make the profit margin as high as he can, and the best way to do that is control the supply and demand. They have run our in-country manufacturing industry out of business with low prices, and now that we have none, they can and are taking advantage of us. That's why jeans made in Bangladesh or some third-world hole are now priced at $80 instead of $10 as they were 20 years ago.

I think there is a great deal you do not understand about business or economics. Trump on the other hand, does. Of course you are sooooo much smarter than Trump. You should write him and tell him so, so that you can get on the payroll as an advisor. Then, you can tell him he is an idiot and should do what you say.

 

What a crock of horseshit. I can find $20 jeans and $5 underwear. What you are observing is NOT lack of competition but an expression of the free market.
It seems your knowledge of economics is fatally flawed. The nature of trade is that both parties must benefit - or the trade CANNOT occur. The idea that one can screw the other is so stupid that it's insulting. Yes trump appears to not understand basic economic principles. Maybe somebody can find him in a Wealth of Nations picture book, illustrated in crayon so he can understand it.
Pull your f%^&^% head out of your.. I mean the sand.

 

Yeah, it's obvious you know a hell of a lot. I've only been a business owner for 52 years. Only founded 7 companies, with number 8 coming soon. My small business only has customers in about 110 countries, including China. So what the hell would I know about this compared to someone so all-knowing..... like you.

 

Depending on the amount of a minimum wage I agree with you. But it has to be more geared to the state and not a national minimum wage. People need a $15.00 min wage in NY, Cal. Washington, etc. But in states like Alabama, Georgia and Miss., a $15.00 min wage is to high, because the cost of living is much less.


Obama was for tax on the rich. Most Democrats are. He had the highest corporate tax in the whole industrial world and near record regulations against them. What did that give us? We had companies fly out of the country. Obama lost over 300,000 manufacturing jobs alone. He said those jobs were gone and not coming back. He replaced those jobs with over 90% service and part time jobs. Many that wouldn't pay a living wage, much less support a family. When Trump came in, he reversed all of Obama's policies and the economy took off like a rocket. Companies that had no intention of ever coming back to America's high tax and regulations started coming back. Some almost immediately. An example

Apple comes back.

But it took the cut in taxes and regulations to swing it for many of those factories. Especially Apple. Asked in 2016 if he would bring his billions in off shore billions home, he said no.( .Apple CEO Says Company Won't Bring Home Money Parked ...

https://www.forbes.com/.../08/17/apple-ceo-says-company-wont...

Aug 17, 2016 · Apple CEO Says Company Won't Bring Home Money Parked Overseas Until Tax Rates Are 'Fair'. Tech giant Apple is hoping that the United States' tolerance for pain is a little bit lower than mine. In an interview with The Washington Post last week, Apple CEO Tim Cook discussed his tenure at Apple and, not surprisingly,...

But one year later after Trump's tax cuts


Newscentermaine.com | Why Apple is bringing billions back home
www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/nation-now/...
A second corporate campus, an additional 20,000 workers and a $350 billion commitment. That's Apple's pledge to the U.S. As the tech giant announced a sweeping set of moves Wednesday to bring back billions of its offshore cash and spur economic growth. The plan also includes paying $38 billion in taxes. Plus Creates 2,000 jobs shifting production back to US ...
https://www.theguardian.com/tec.../2013/nov/05/apple-creates...
Apple creates 2,000 jobs shifting production back to US ... Engineering and construction jobs at a new plant in ... The first Macintosh computer made in America since ...

 

Well seeing $80 jeans and coming to the conclusion that it's because of lack of competition due to chinese imports screams that you don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you've just been lucky.

 

I never saw where Trump ever gave a fixed amount that people would gain in their pocket. But he was right, he has brought back millions of better paying jobs with his tax and regulation cuts. He has taken around 5 million off food stamps. Obama had a record amount on them. Those tax cuts were more for companies than the general population, although it did give millions more in their pocket. America is in a trade war which we have been losing because of bad trades. To compound it, we had the highest corporate tax in the whole industrial world and topped that off with almost record regulations. Our companies couldn't compete here like that and Trump knew it. He also knew America could not continue to be a military and economic power with jobs like Obama's policies created. When he became President, almost immediately he went about to dump Obama's policies and start his own and it paid off immediately. Blacks, Hispanics and Asians have all seen their lowest unemployment in their history. Jobs are coming back. The economy is one of, if not the strongest on earth right now. Hundreds of thousand have risen out of poverty up to middle class. America is much better off than it was, even if some didn't make out from the tax cut. Most did, one way or the other.

 

Thanks to Trump and his trade war with China, China now controls Wall Street. The Dow has shot up 352 points as it stands right now. Why? Because of China, of course.

The Dow and the broader US stock market rallied sharply Thursday, buoyed by hopes that trade tensions between the United States and China could ease. Why the optimism?

The optimism follows comments by a Chinese government official suggesting Beijing is hoping for continued trade talks with the United States. China is willing to resolve the trade dispute "with a calm attitude," said Gao Feng, spokesperson for China's ministry of commerce Thursday.

Our President has put the U.S. in this position. Thank you, Mr. President.

Also, thanks to our President, on Sept. 1 prices will go up on computers, cell phones, games, toys, clothing, shoes, etc. because of his 15% tariff.

 

There was nothing free in the market place. Almost all had tariffs on products coming in and America was getting the shaft with bad trade agreements. China, with billions of people living there, we had very little to sell the average Chinese, because we lost most of our industries we once dominated. China has a trade surplus against us of over 500 billion dollars. To top it off, they were stealing corporate secrets from our companies there and manipulating their currency to get even a bigger advantage over us. They use much of that profit buying up American companies here and pouring billions in their military, wanting to replace us as the world's biggest economy and military power. They are already throwing their power around in the South China Sea, trying to block all navel traffic around their man made islands which they have built a big military base there. They have also been threatening Twain, which we have a defense treaty with.

 

Figures you totally missed the message. Those $80 britches weren't wal-mart jeans, they were big name jeans- but so are the $10 bargain jeans. The Asians used to have only the cheap market; now they have all the market. Nobody manufactures clothing, shoes or a great many other things in America- they have managed to erode our ability to be self sufficient, to manufacture our own basic product needs, to employ all those trades- to the point we are out of the business altogether, and that means those who produce what we need control what we must pay. It doesn't happen all at once, it's progressive. It's a business strategy. You don't learn it watching MSNBC. You don't learn it working for someone else. You don't even learn it in an MBA class. But you damn sure learn it in real world competition, and if you don't- your business doesn't survive.

Both the $80 big name jeans and the $10 bargain jeans are coming from cheap Asian sources. They are "competing" with themselves now, at least presenting the illusion of competition- and we have no alternative sources. We are now unable to compete in several major industries. Thus, our strategy has to be based around what we do have that they need- such as soybeans.

I'm wasting my time here. You aren't going to figure it out.

 

Read my other post,mostly on China. Wall street goes up and down on the slightest news, good or bad. Trump is more than willing to discuss trade and tariffs with China. He has been good at holding off the big tariffs he has threatened them with. But he is hurting China. Companies have been moving out of china because wages are going up. Trump's tariffs, or threat of even higher tariffs are hurrying up the exit of scores of more factories leaving. We have even bagged 6 or seven of them. China has been having the worst year in decades. She really can't afford to keep losing factories with all those people. We have to see this trade war through. It's hurting them a lot more than us and we can only gain when it's over.

 

1. COMPANIES FLEE CHINA TO ESCAPE TRUMP'S TRADE WAR ...
   https://www.ifapray.org/blog/companies-flee-china-to-escape-trumps-trade-war
   Jul 19, 2019 · Companies that relocate from China are unlikely to move production back because of the high cost of moving operations. The cost is worth it to move out, though, to avoid tariff rates that hit as high as 25% for companies without an exemption…. China’s economic growth has slowed significantly as Trump continues to pressure the East Asian power.
   
   
2. 'Made in China' no more: Chinese companies flee overseas ...
   https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/made-in-china-no-more-chinese-companies...
   Sep 11, 2018 · BEIJING (AFP) - A growing number of Chinese companies are adopting a crafty way to evade US President Donald Trump's tariffs: remove the "Made in China…
   

 

Again, this is fear mongering horse.sh*t. We haven't lost the ability to do anything - it's simply not feasible to. FFS, if it were profitable to make blue jeans here we would. If it becomes profitable in the future we will again. I mean, I kind of get your sentiment that Americans are stupid and can't figure this stuff out - we did elect trump after all. But I assure you that there are plenty of savvy Americans left who realize when a profit can (and can't) be turned. If it wasn't possible to bring industry back to the US then trumps trade war makes even less sense.

 

And of course that is why nobody in America is trying to manufacture $80 blue jeans, a capacity that left long before Trump. Try opening a business when virtually all employees skilled in it's trades are retired or gone. Nothing to it. I highly recommend you hock everything you own and jump in as soon as possible so you can get rich- easy since the people who are must be stupid, and you- You Sooooo smart.
Not smart enough I think, but really, really almost.

 

China has dishonored the pooch.

Clinton's China expert says Trump won



Donald Gross worked on U.S. negotiations with Red China during the Clinton administration. He wrote a piece in The Hill, "Trump already has won the trade war with China."

President Trump always wins the battle before he engages the enemy. He is a very stable genius with an unusually large brain, and that's just how he rolls.

Gross wrote, "At this point, the U.S. has won numerous Chinese commitments in the trade negotiations.
"As a result of these agreed measures, there will be a far more level playing field for trade between China and the United States. China no longer will have the advantages it relied upon in the past to sell extensively into the U.S. market while restricting the activities of U.S. firms in the Chinese market."

All the "experts" on Red China in DC lectured us long and hard about how no one wins a trade war. And yet, there is President Trump winning a trade war.

Zero Hedge reported, "With Beijing rapidly running out of US imports to slap tariffs on, the Chinese government indicated on Thursday that it wouldn’t immediately retaliate against the latest US tariff escalation announced by President Trump a week ago, Bloomberg reports. Instead, it will be looking for ways to finally deescalate the trade conflict, which has dragged on for nearly 18 months.

Chairman Xi is on the ropes. The communist party cannot be happy with what is going on in Hong Kong, and China's stock market has tanked.

 

Of course there are other factors, but the main one is trade jitters caused by Trump's trade with China. There are countless examples, but the latest one was a tweet.

Stocks plunged on Friday, Aug. 23, after Trump ordered U.S. manufacturers to find alternatives to their operations in China. Apple led the way lower.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed 623.34 points lower.

Good for him. That's a plus? Threats rather than negotiation is a plus? Wow! That is some kind of thinking.

Where you getting that? From Trump?

Who gives a rat's ass about China? Our concern is America's economy, not China's. But, you are right about one thing. Trump concerns himself about China on a daily basis while causing inflation at home.

Thanks to our President, on Sept. 1 prices will go up on computers, cell phones, games, toys, clothing, shoes, etc. because of his 15% tariff.

The latest figures show that China's GDP is three times that of the U.S. Trump won't tell you that.

Do you get all your material from Trump or the White House website? Perhaps that is your problem.

Wise up. You are backing the wrong horse and you know it.

 

Trump's trade war with China began March 22, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–United_States_trade_war

This chart shows how serious the problem is.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

Since Trump started his trade war with China, the Dow has actually lost ground.

On Jan. 29, 2018, the Dow hit its 2018 high of 26,439. Today, the stock market rallied (hooray!). The Dow soared 326 points to reach 26,362.

That is only 77 points shy of where we were on Jan. 29, 2018.

Of course, that is what Trump's fans want to believe. The stagnation in the markets since Jan. 2018 isn't Trump's fault. Yeah, sure.

Stocks plunged on Friday, Aug. 23, after Trump ordered U.S. manufacturers to find alternatives to their operations in China. Apple led the way lower. The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed 623.34 points lower.

Dow Jones futures reversed big overnight losses, turning sharply higher Monday morning, after Trump said Beijing requested new China trade talks. The Dow gained 270 points.

When it became apparent that Trump lied about the phone calls, the Dow lost 121 of those 270 points.

Today, the stock market rallied (hooray!). The Dow soared 326 points to reach 26,362. Thanks to Trump and his trade war with China, China now controls Wall Street. The optimism follows comments by a Chinese government official suggesting Beijing is hoping for continued trade talks with the United States. China is willing to resolve the trade dispute "with a calm attitude," said Gao Feng, spokesperson for China's ministry of commerce Thursday.

Yes, there are other factors of course, but the main one is Trump's misbegotten trade war with China. Anyone saying something different is just fooling himself.

 

After which tax rate cuts did that happen?

 

“We’re going to win so much,
you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning!” ​

Fake Don's trade war against the US is winning victory after victory to the point that Americans are sick and tired of winning and eager to surrender.

Meanwhile, the lying coward is, predictably, hysterically lashing out, blaming everyone else for his disastrous policy.

"Liar. We don't even have a dog."​

 

Wow. What a surprise. As his "easy to win!" trade war devastates one US business sector after another, the craven cry baby is sniveling:

​