Why does the whistleblower's identity matter?

If there was an investigation of Burisma and Trump was pushing Ukraine to pursue that investigation he was well within his powers and his job. If the Bidens were part of that corrupt activity it is reasonable that the President would ask how deeply they were involved. Biden was not a bank manager, he was the robber and Hunter was the conduit.

 

Nah, he was humiliated in front of the entire nation, bigly.

 

Well he certainly doesn't act humiliated. Are you sure? Maybe y'all better do it again, whatcha think?

 

We will be doing it for the next ten months, Heartburn.

Why do you think his outlast in tweets are so hateful.

He got kicked hard, real hard.

 

Never laid a glove on him. You have the rest of this term and all the next to act like your mascot and keep making him look good.

 

If there was no mal-intention behind the request for an "investigation" then Trump would've conducted the investigation through the proper channels...not in secret through Giuliani, Parnas, Fruman, et. al. And he wouldn't have fired the ambassador. And he wouldn't have lied about the call. And he wouldn't have placed the call record in a secret server. And he wouldn't have redacted the call transcript or removed 20 minutes from it. And he would've mentioned "corruption" in the call. And he wouldn't have put a hold on the aid or lied about it. And he wouldn't have blocked subpoenas for witnesses & documents. And he lied about quid pro quo, while Mulvaney admitted to it. And Trump only wanted the announcement of an investigation, not an actual investigation. And...and...and...and....need I go on?

Also, the investigation into Burisma began & ended long before Hunter Biden joined the company. The DoD & Pentagon vetted the Ukraine, certifying that it had met the criteria for anti-corruption needed to receive aid.

It doesn't matter what the Bidens were doing. The Bidens were civilians who could do whatever they wanted. Trump was only targeting them because Joe's a political threat in Trump's 2020 election bid.

And if Trump was so concerned about "corruption" with Biden/Burisma, then why did he wait until he learned Joe Biden was going to run for president? Why did Trump seek a formal investigation into Biden/Burisma years earlier? There's no excuse for Trump's actions...period!

 

Trump used people and channels he trusted, the established bureaucracy was on the wrong page. They were still executing the previous President's policies so Trump used people loyal to himself and worked around the establishment. The number of people who were eager to testify as to what they heard someone say they heard someone say he said is testimony to his isolation. They fought back to defend their established policies and they lost.

The Biden clan is dirty.

 

The question is the corruption of threatening another nation into investigating one's political opponent.

There is no doubt about what the witnesses testified to: Trump abusing his power.

 

No, he is exercising his power and his responsibility to establish and enforce American foreign policies in troubled areas. Just like Obama did.

 

Wrong.
If one gives a damn about credibility or truth, you have to know where accusations come from. Here's a relevant story that broke this morning:

Three Ukrainian officials were allegedly approached by Obama-era National Security Council officials, one of whom may be the whistleblower, soliciting “information on the Trump Campaign” during a White House meeting in January 2016.
The three Ukrainians – former advisor to the Prosecutor General Andrii Telizhenko, Deputy Prosecutor General Konstantin Kulik, and top anti-corruption prosecutor and target of Democrat impeachment Marie Yovanovitch’s firing campaign, Nazar Kholodnytsky – are ready and willing to testify about the meeting.

“The three of them will say that they were at the National Security Council and two members of the National Security Council who represented Biden asked them basically to dig up dirt on the Party of Regions and any of their consultants, and their consultant was [Paul] Manafort. It was later clarified they wanted Manafort. And one of the key people at the meeting making the request is one of the people suspected of being the whistleblower.”

In short, “Obama’s people are asking political operatives of Ukraine to get information on the Trump campaign. It’s as simple as that.”

 

The anti Trump campaign is the largest conspiracy act in American political history. It included both political parties here, the entire media system and the film industry both movies and television. Most frightening is that it corrupted our legal system and those charged with protecting our country and it's constitution.

And still he stands!

 

You do realize you're just concocting silly excuses for Trump's criminal behavior, right?

And yes, of course any criminal mastermind wants to work with people they feel they can trust, and to operate below the radar of public scrutiny. Does that make the criminal innocent?

I'm not a Biden fan, but how do you know? Trump has been investigated multiple times so we know what he did. Biden hasn't even been investigated. So what evidence do you have?

The Trump clan is not dirty?

 

If that were the case (1) Trump would not have needed to keep his call to Zelensky a secret, (2) there'd be no need for a whistleblower to expose Trump's secret illegal activities, (3) Trump would have used the proper govt. channels for anti-corruption investigations; not the services of civilians like Giuliani, Parnas, Fruman, et. al., (4) Trump would not have had to fire Yovanovitch, and (5) Trump would not have withheld aid to Ukraine...etc.

 

First, 5 points to make about this story:

* Why didn't you mention this story came from Giuliani who has already lied repeatedly & is implicated as a significant figure in Trump's scandal? You do realize Giuliani's trying to save his a$$ too, right? He stands to be charged at a future date (which would be interesting because he said he has "insurance" if Trump throws him under the bus).

* I wonder who paid off these three Ukrainian officials (all with corrupt backgrounds). Was it Trump, Putin, various oligarchs...all of the above?

* Even if true (which is highly unlikely), none of this story exonerates Trump from the Ukraine scandal & his other multiple abuses of office. You can't absolve a criminal of his crimes by looking for dirt on others who had no involvement with the criminal's violations.

* You do realize that Trump & Giuliani are STILL looking for dirt on Biden even though the Ukraine aid has already been sent? This is confirmation that Trump's focus was always on Joe Biden, and never on Ukraine corruption. Trump is obsessed with Biden because he's afraid of losing the 2020 election to Biden.

* Trump loyalist & protector, William Barr has recently stated that the DOJ now has an "open door" to any "relevant" information coming from the Ukraine. Are we seeing another "drug deal" brewing here?

Now...let's take a closer look at each of these three Ukrainian officials mentioned in the story who seem unusually friendly with Giuliani (who, by the way, is not acting on official capacity):

Source [LINK]

Andrii Telizhenko
Telizhenko is a former low-ranking official at the Ukraine embassy in Washington. He was quoted in a Politico article in January 2017 alleging a Democratic National Committee consultant contacted him and others at the embassy to unearth dirt on Trump and his campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Others at the embassy deny his account. He has never released any documents or other proof of his allegations. Nearly three years later, he has been invited to meet senior Republican senators to discuss his claims. Telizhenko also worked for two chief prosecutors with controversial reputations: Yarema Vitaliy, who was accused of failing to go after those who shot at and killed pro-Western demonstrators in 2014; and Viktor Shokin (see below), who was sharply criticized by U.S. and European governments for his handling of corruption cases. Telizhenko met Giuliani through the former mayor’s friend, Victoria Toensing in 2016. He told NBC News he traveled with Giuliani from Budapest to Kyiv this month, helping with the documentary series for the conservative One America News network that portrayed the impeachment inquiry against President Trump as a witch hunt.

Konstantin Kulik
Kulyk is a former prosecutor whose career was dogged by corruption allegations. He was charged in 2016 with illicit enrichment for having assets far surpassing his salary. Yet, Kulyk remained a top prosecutor. He compiled a dossier in English accusing Hunter Biden of corruption due to his work on the board of the Burisma energy company. He alleged without offering evidence that Biden agreed to help the Ukrainian authorities cultivate relations with the Trump administration for a bribe. Kulyk was ultimately fired on Nov. 25, for failing to show up for mandatory vetting. His former boss in the military prosecutor's office told local media Kulyk had admitted in his security clearance application that he was friends with a suspected Russian intelligence agent in his home town of Kharkiv. Investigators also found that Kulyk's car was registered in the name of the commander of pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine.

Nazar Kholodnytsky
Kholodnytsky is Ukraine’s special anti-corruption prosecutor. Last May, he met with Giuliani in Paris with the former mayor’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who face charges of funneling foreign money into the upcoming U.S. election. Kholodnytsky was caught on tape coaching witnesses in corruption cases on how to avoid prosecution. He says the audio was taken out of context. Former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, cited the wiretaps when she called for his replacement in March. Kholodnytsky has said he has doubts about the case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and that the case on the Burisma energy company should be re-opened, something Giuliani has pushed for.

Read the rest of the article for more dirt about Giuliani's additional "friends" in the Ukraine, including:

Andrii Artemenko
Andrii Derkach
Oleksandr Dubinsky
Viktor Shokin
Yuriy Lutsenko
Gennady Kernes

Oligarchs linked to Giuliani’s effort:

Dmytro Firtash
Ihor Kolomoisky
Pavel Fuchs

 

Rudy's report will be out soon.

No!

 

There was no whistleblower, that was a composit concocted by the ringleaders of the coup to give their media some story to relay to the American people for justification for the mess they started.

Trump is entitled to use people he trusts to investigate people of power that he suspects and does not trust.

 

When (and if) the issues do come to official hearing, I hope we will know for sure- but the idea we take Trump accusations as valid on face value, and exculpatory things as automatically lies, kind of lacks respectability. It has however become the SOP for the democrats. Amazing how different things look when people adjust what they see to avoid what they don't want to see, and then assume they are being rational. One thing is very clear, and that is that a great deal of the accusations being made are fabrications and distortions. Not the kind of things honorable people would do.

 

Your evidence, other than Rudy & corrupt Ukrainian figures?

Giuliani, Parnas, Fruman, Shokin, etc. are not U.S. public officials. The president is not allowed to operate above the scrutiny of congress in these matters. Trump used these people BECAUSE they were not govt. officials that could be monitored, recorded, scrutinized, etc.

 

Neither Trump, nor his minions are honorable people. Why do Trump loyalists continue to accept anything said by a president who has lied 16,000 times since taking office? Why do they not fact-check all his claims? Why do they so willingly accept those lies or brush off those lies as if they were no big deal? Why do they hate those who ARE honorable people?

It's clear why. It's because they're living a fantasy and a lie...and so the truth is a threat.

 

Hunter Biden

The left side of this Congress has been 'investigating' this President since Hillary conceded. No reason for him to trust them or for us to either for that matter.

 

Hunter Biden is NOT "evidence".

I never said Biden is trustworthy. I wouldn't trust Joe Biden anymore than I can throw him myself. I'm almost certain he's been involved in shady stuff, as are pretty much all establishment politicians. But I'm not going to make stuff up and make claims without evidence. With Trump we have a mountain of evidence. There's no hearsay...just a ton of evidentiary facts. There wasn't the Mueller report or Trump's impeachment for nothing.

 

That is your argument; your opinion- and seriously conflicts with facts. If you can see you are siding with people who are running a vendetta, your excuses are irrelevant. I would hope you are not so extremely naive and biased to believe that the democratic behavior all this time is honorable. If you do, you lose absolutely all cred.

 

Trump's words and behavior obviously cannot be accept at face value.

 

So you're saying that a person who committed a crime should skate if those who are accusing the criminal have a "vendetta" (as you believe) against him or that the accusers are not "honorable" (as you believe)?

The criminal acts don't matter to you?

The evidence & facts don't matter to you?

The pathological lying, deception, secrecy, and cover ups don't matter to you?

A trial in which evidence is not allowed to be presented is fair to you? Is that a wise way to ensure that no abuse of office & no betrayal of public trust has occurred?

Running the country like a mob boss runs his organized crime ring is OK to you?

 

Why wouldn't it follow that he would be the subject of an investigation?

Hunter's situation with various energy companies certainly makes him evidence, he didn't get those jobs because he was a brilliant energy business expert.