Why doesn't college prepare you for the real world?

Given the global economy, I would also advise a study abroad program for a semester or two.

 

Like I said, if you major in basketweaving, you'll probably make a good basketweaver. If you form your own basketweaving corporation and run it wisely and effectively, you'll probably make a "boatload" of money and enjoy the prosperity that goes along with it. I was trying to give common sense advice for the real world, from the perspective of having been a mid-level manager in a very large Fortune 50 corp.

The really sad thing is seeing how many people think that merely getting some kind of educational "credential" is going to guarantee them a place on the gravy-train. Instead, there's a hell of a lot of people with 2-year "degrees" from street-corner "colleges" that are down there with the bottom-feeders at Obama's "beggars' banquet"....

 

A bunch of hot air.......sigh.

 

Your username seemed a bit familiar and didn't jibe with how I sorta remembered you so I went over to your profile and see that you belong to the libertarian group, which is the alignment I thought you had.

Now, if your specific beef was simply with government subsidizing education, that would be one thing. However the points you seem to be making don't seem to match with a libertarian outlook. Actually, come to think of it, while I've met a fair number of libertarians I don't think I've ever met one that wasn't making a fair bit of money (or in the case of those at college, expected to make a lot of money in the future). They either went to college or went directly into business ownership.

As to this specific quote, as a libertarian I'd have expected you to appreciate that employeers shouldn't be and to a fair degree aren't forced to do things against their interested. You simply don't hire someone out of high school as a rocket scientist. Nor do many high tech jobs lend themselves to the apprentiship model as in my experience there isn't a whole lot of "hey hold this" work for them as you'd have with, say, a carpenter. You generally have to have some minimum clue as to the science first, at which point we have internships (which again, I highly highly advise).

Of course outside of STEM degrees you're in a danger zone. Note the degrees in this recent article on the BS some for profit colleges were playing with "successful placement rates". (i.e. degrees in business, and fashion marketing. WTF is a fashion marketing degree anyway? )
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/education-management-corp-for-profit-college_n_1349063.html

Hmmm. You raise something of a valid problem there. However slowing everything down doesn't seem like a good idea at all in a globally competitive economy where we have to "win" in order to simply maintain our much higher standard of living (which requires who knows how many people toiling in sweatshops abroad to provide each American with the stuff we now feel we have a right to).

I suppose what is needed is to have something like "assisted study hall" where there are some teachers are on hand to provide kids the help they aren't getting at home. Students with active parents could instead fill those time slots with additional classes.

Actually come to think of it I think something like that is already occuring. My daughter is now in kindergarden, and where I am they try to accelerate students, relying on "tiger moms" and whatnot so that her kindergarden class is basically doing what I did back in first grade. And they push like that all through the education system. But I belive they have different classes based on a childs performance and need for additional assistance (i.e. while when I was in school each homeroom or whatever was basically the same and it was just chance which one you ended up in, at her school the different homerooms denote whether you're advanced, average, or behind.)

It's hard enough to get students to not treat college like a five year party when they're staring down a lifetime of debt. I shudder to think of the money we could flush providing free "educations" in art history or whatever. I wouldn't want people to be excluded from persuing a useful degree because of their economic background, but I have no problem whatsoever with them having "skin in the game" after they're 18 and therefore adults.

I'll second that. I found my study abroad coming up all the time in job interviews (in part because I think the recruiters were just interested to hear about China, but either way I think it helped).

Also it's a potentially incredible and eye opening experience, and one you probably aren't going to be able to have later in life. Sure you could go somewhere as a tourist, but that isn't going to be remotely the same as being integrated with foreign college students your age for an extended period of time.

 

How about this; ALL kids achieve high school graduation by 10th-11th grade, then are REQUIRED to join a Peace Corps type organization and serve for 1-2 years, and are then provided a free public education to achieve an undergraduate degree or trade certification.

It's not the kids who are failing education; it's the collective we who are not providing comprehensive experiences and education. There is so much more we can do...

 

Disagree with the system being completely at fault and actually think the kids enrolled are the biggest problem, if you dont consider the parents who raised them first.

In my undergrad at ASU (2002) I studied Mechanical Engineering while minoring in business management and math. In that level of education the level of effort put in is ridiculously low, in my opinion because those students werent paying for it. (~52k)

I finished a masters in International Finance from Pepperdine in 2009 (~$80k) and every single person in that program was putting in maximum effort.

So what is the problem here? In my opinion it is those kids who dont FEEL the affect of what they are going through, IE paying for it. My parents were nice enough to split my undergrad with me and even then I felt less pressure to perform because I wasnt feeling the "pain" of the full price of admission. My masters program was something that I had to pay and plan for myself and because of that tried as hard as I can to get the full benefit of the education.

So again, what is the problem here? I believe it can all be narrowed down to simply stating that all people SHOULDNT go to college. We need to create other programs that are on an even keel with what college is supposed to offer.

I would be a fan of creating apprecnticeship programs where the "master" is given some type of incentive to do so. Perhaps a 5% tax deduction or something to that affect to bring on reasons for people to want to take on an apprentice.


I guess the part I do agree with you on is that college should not be the social norm for what it takes to succeed. I would like to see several paths that the youth can take to reach success; college, apprenticeships, etc. However when it comes to "does college prepare you for life", absolutely if THE STUDENT is willing to put the time and effort into it.

Sadly many kids who shouldnt even be in college are put in a system that they are bound to fail at.

 

interesting.

 

Well actually college does in a way prepare you for the real world. i did a little time in college and i noticed that its alot like the real world, but its up to you on what you get out of it. in college you are basically on your own, nobody is gonna pamper you and the teachers arent gonna give a rats ass if you are in class or honestly paying attention. its up to you to make your own schedule and live by it, its up to you what classes you wanna take and what you want to cram in your head whether it be knowledge, political bull(*)(*)(*)(*), or beer and drugs.

you make your own way in college, as is life on your own. the outcome of college is all on you, the work you want to put in and the direction you choose to go.

 

don't tell that to a banker or their tools in washington.

 

Regarding this thread, how is the 'real world' defined? Does this mean being employed? Does it mean middle-class or higher incomes? Does it mean increasing marriage successes from 50% to 55%? Does it mean being fiscally responsible?

Then we need to ask what is the purpose of public K-12 education? The purpose of university studies? Is it to obtain knowledge? To have better qualifications to secure employment? If a kid studies visual arts for four years in college to become a free-lance artist, is this a bad thing?

I think the bottom line is that we need people and capabilities in every imaginable form, from house cleaning to brain surgeons, from engineering to the trades, from the arts to high tech, from teachers to continuing students; it is not possible to pigeon-hole all kids expecting them to obtain a degree in the sciences and become an upper middle-class earner, with 2.3 kids, etc. etc. etc. The fundamental first-step of designing an education system, IMO, is to understand the diversity of humans...

 

Right, but that constitues slowing down. The only reason they can push kids here faster than when I was in school is because they're relying on heavy one-on-one teaching by parents to supplement what they're getting in class. The one-on-one bit being especially important in pre-k and kindergarden where the kids really need it. During high school students could do more on their own.

For kids without such assistance you have a point that there may be a more optimal way to teach them during a given eight hour block than to teach in such a way that parental assistance is expected.

However I think that might already be in existance. Specifically for a given grade at her school there are different homerooms (i.e. different groups of kids) with the different homerooms designed for advanced, average, and slow kids. With the slow kids getting more one-on-one time and teaching at a lower level. In this case "slow" could be because the kids aren't that bright or are just developing slower, or could be because they aren't getting the help at home. But either way hopefully they're getting an education geared toward the mental or parental resources they have.

Well, we really don't need all types and talents. Rapists come to mind. However while I think few educations produce a negative value, plenty of degrees can result in little or no net benifit to society, especially if they aren't utilized. Someone studying art history might be useful as a museum docent, but they're just be annoying as a burger flipper.

I think of "the real world" as life after you're no longer supported by your parents, loans, or something of that nature.

I would associate those things with success in "the real world". Though some may define success differently.

In an of itself that isn't a bad thing. There are plenty of jobs for artists out there. If they suck an end up as a cashier at Wal-mart with tens of thousands in student loans they can't shake I would consider that a bad thing for them.

If they end up and Wal-Mart and somehow manage to stick the rest of us with the bill for their four-five year party than I'd say that's a bad thing for the rest of us.

The reason for the push for STEM grads and entrepenours is that they are what fuels the edge we experience in the west. Our way of life is based largely on our tech and innovation giving us a competitve edge so that we're all supported by hoards working in sweatshops abroad and have massive relative wealth to those other countries.

If we lose that edge than one would expect our unskilled workers to have a way of life on par with unskilled workers elsewhere. And you do not want to live like the workers in China.

So we push everyone a little towards what our country needs, and then the options are open for other things for those who can't or don't want to do that. I don't think we should be writing people off as incapable of pulling off a STEM/enterprenour carrer early in their life.

I think countries that seperate out kids early and say that a given bunch just isn't ever going to be more than a trade at best are doing themselves and their people a diservice.

 

makes sense

 

I think therefore I am.

 

To a degree, I do believe the system is not entirely at fault. However, there are a lot of factors that contribute. Look for a majority of universities, getting a bachelor's degree is not that difficult. What is difficult is handling everything else that goes with being in college. This is where students fail, not a lack of academics per se. Let me give you an example. SMU has one of the best MBA programs in the country. It is difficult to get in and it is very expensive. However, the BBA degree is a breeze to pass and not much effort is required. The professors basically have students regurgitate the information they are given. And I would guess this is the case with a majority, if not most, universities with the bachelor level. But 30 years ago, that was not the case; yet most people still had a yearning to go to college. 30 years ago, finances did not allow people to go to college and they have to settle on the "second" choice. The point is that we have seen an evolution in our educational system where 30 years ago the bachelor degree was the benchmark and now the masters degree is the benchmark. 30 years from now, it mght be the Ph.D., but who knows.

 

Over 30 years in industry, I probably hire a couple of thousand young Turks. I can tell you what I expect for entry level professionals.

First, I really don't expect you to know anything about your new job. Each broad degree type can qualify you for a 1,000 different jobs having nothing to do with any course you took. All of my senior people are specialist in their fields and spent years honing their skill in some little corner that didn't even rate a mention in class. I'm just looking for someone I can teach my business in the next 5 years or so. I'm really not that interested in where you got your BS, what your GPA was as long as it was over 3.0 or so, and I'm not too picky about what your major was. I'll teach you to do my job, you just convince me you are worth the investment.

What I do depend on your college to do is sort out the good learners. You are not going to an accounting degree without understanding numbers, how the books work in general, and have good organizational skills. You don't get the engineering degree without a rational mindset and pretty good critical thinking skills. I don't care how good you were in business management, you're not going to manage must for the first few years, but I do want good people skills. The only universal I ever had was that I wanted you to know how to touch type.

I don't want to go to a doctor that doesn't have a logical enough mind to pass undergrad physics. I don't depend on any school to guarantee you can do my job. I just want them to sort out the people who likely can't learn the job.

Oh, and on the political front. College does not teach people to be liberal no matter how many Humanities credits are required. But good schools do teach critical thinking. You've got to prove your case to these people who only rarely take things at face value. From what I've observed, it tends to drive them into independent moderates who are looking for solutions, not just a list of problems.

 

That makes total sense. And I feel it's good for parents and students to rea your post. because there is a thinking that they have a degree and go out and are qualified to be a manager or run a business. The degree may get you the job, but you aren't qualified at that point in time. I also think it's important to show what grad students are being hired for instead of what they hope it to be. Unless they stat their own business that's how it is. Also college doesn't just make you automatically brilliant. Nice post!

 

College prepares people for the real world, maybe its you, who isnt ready for it????

 

I've been in the real world. But thanks for your opinion.

 

well college and military service worked for me.

If it didnt work for you, maybe the problem isnt with college?

 

You're way off. Please don't start that on my thread. It is a question to spark conversation. Thanks again for your time.

 

Ever seen who's being 'streamed' through Liberal Indoctrination Centers like Berkley? Don't make me laugh. Do you seriously believe that these (cough) graduates are ready for the real word? Maybe if the 'real world' meant everyone could live along side the stream coming down from The Bigrock Candy Mountain. LOL The next time you see an ad where a business is looking from a 'leisure activity' graduate that pays more than ten grand a year let us all know. LOL

 

Good point. Employers still have to fizzle out the losers. Interesting.

 

It does not need to mean 'slowing down'. A mistake we have today is we graduate 3000 8th graders, then send them to high school as freshmen, then continue to group them through their senior year...group...group...group. Why should we group kids when every one of them have different interests and capabilities? Why not approach K-12 the same way we design college studies; EACH student selects those courses which benefit that student without any consideration of a group. In the K-12 grades, the educators also need to treat each kid individually...meaning place them in class study which benefits each kid...whether this is accelerated or slowed or high levels, etc. STOP with the group mentality!

I disagree...we need people of all capabilities and interests. You cannot manage a nation if every single person studies only computer science. And screw the idea that a college degree must evolve into a paying job. If people wish to learn...let them learn!

Government and kids are separate entities. If you have a problem with government paying for bad loans, etc. then blame the government...not the kids.

Each kid has 'potential'. Allow each kid to develop that potential...no matter how it relates to earning an income...

 

Tiny little problem with that: Who the hell is going to feed and cloth and house them? Me? You? What if a 'kid's "potential" is basically being able to do nothing? We are watching the beginning of the collapse of America. If that's OK with you fine. I have mine and I worked my ass off for decades to get it and now the 'takers' want what's mine. Good luck with that. I donate and volunteer to help those who actually need help. Not spongers who are able to work but now know Obama will take care of them.