Why EVERYONE'S right to free speech is important...

oh come on! what rock are you living under????? there is nothing new about this “normal”!! politicians started lying to us before the ink was even dry on the constitution! every politician lies! about everything! always!

now you call me a trump apologist? i’ve been posting here about 2 weeks. show me a thread where i’ve applogized for trump. in fact i could post about 2 pages of trump lies alone. as i told you above it is your job as a citizen to discern fact from fiction.

 

but the press is free to challenge those lies! this is where your entire “argument” falls apart. like i said above, you call me when the state starts shutting down networks and journalists start disappearing. until then, stop this nonsense about attacks on the free press.

and i’m asking you to show me consistency: if you’ve admitted obama lied to the press, and lies to the press are attacks on their freedom, certainly you have criticized obama for attacking the press. i’d like to see those posts!

 

How does it do that? Obama had a handful of lies. It was not normal.

Wrong! It's lying to all the people! What interest would anybody have in lying "to a small select group of people"?

What are you talking about. "Cooperate"? He doesn't need to "cooperate". Just tell the truth.

Yes he does. He has to report to the People of the United States. He has the obligation to be reasonably transparent.

Nothing you write here makes any sense. You are just attempting to excuse the actions of a pathological liar, and an irresponsible President. It is the sign of the Trump Cult.

 

Typical canned simplistic response.

Everybody (politician or not) tells a lie once in a while. But what a rational person looks to discern is between those who lie because of human nature but are fundamentally honest, from those who do it as their modus op\erandi and modus vivendi.

Saying "all politicians lie" is the lazy person's way of getting out of this analysis. People who accept this are the easiest to fpp;.

What does "apologizing" have to do with being a Trump apologist? Look for a dictionary.

 

No they're not! Not in this administration. They are thrown out of the room. They risk getting their White House credentials removed (which has happened), or that their media is not allowed to ask questions anymore (which has also happened). And the President is then free to scream "Fake News" at the top of his lungs to his cult.

If that's how you expected it to fall apart, then I guess it just became as solid as ever./

This statement is concerning. Is the American people becoming this naive?

In any case, look for information on how Kaitlan Collins was banned. If you want... but it's pretty irrelevant. There are many ways to curtail freedom of press other than what you state.

Obama never attacked the press. I don't know what you are looking for. You want to see me criticize Obama for lying to the press those 18 times? Here

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ch-is-important.539110/page-5#post-1069495443

 

He told hundreds of lies and to deny that fact is a lie. It destroys your premise because you claim we should never tolerate it however you DO tolerate it if it is a democrat.

The media and press is not all of the people and there is just as much advantage in lying to a select group as there is to lying to a large group.

It would be nice if presidents told the truth but there is no requirement for them to do so. And that is a form of cooperation. When politicians lie on a daily basis as OBAMA DID it proves it is normal.

He has no such obligation and what i am saying makes perfect sense.

I am attempting to do so no such thing and am not a trump supporter. What I am simply stating fact which you hate. He is a liar like any politician but not pathological as you claim.

Sorry my world does not revolve around trump as yours does. The things I am saying apply to all presidents not just trump.

 

18 unique lies in 8 years, Compare that to Trump's constant lies.

Here is a comparison of the first 10 months.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/14/opinion/sunday/trump-lies-obama-who-is-worse.html

I said we shouldn't allow it to become normal. There was no danger of it becoming normal during the Obama Administration. We didn't even give it too much thought at the time. Obama never hid away from answering questions from the press regarding anything he said. His lies were pretty much inconsequential. This, on the other hand, is Trump's post-truth era. Yes.... the rules are different now. Just like rules changed for air travel after 9-11. But they do apply to everybody.

Ridiculous statement. How do you think the people receive the information?

.
Yes there is: the Oath of Office. You can lie once every so often and still faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States. But not if you shamelessly lie more than 6 times a day

 

Your made up 18 lies is a false hood it is hundreds.

Either way it means nothing 18 or 1800 is still a bunch of lies and it is normal for politicians to lie.


It did not become normal it IS normal and there is nothing you can do about it. It was just as normal under Obama as he was as much a liar as trump.

Wrong the oath of office does not forbid lying and one lie is as bad as a thousand. If a thousand lies prevents one form faithfully executing the office then 1 lie does as well.

The press does not exist to give people information and no one owes them cooperation or access or the truth.

Obama's lies were just as vile such as telling people they would be able to keep their doctor and or their health care plan.

HE was just as bad a lying dishonest piece of **** as Trump and that is fact you cannot refute. You can repeat the 18 lie crap all day but it is crap and a lie.

 

you are beyond my help it would appear. whatever drugs you are
on, perhaps comsult the little pamphlet. i think you are suffering some major side effects.

now let’s go through a little exercise in logic...

you said lying to the press = attacking the press. then you said obama lied to the press. then you said obama didn’t attack the press. uhm? you have some explaining to do it would appear.

 

oh pedantic we will go! pedantic we will go! hi ho the dairy oh pedantic we will go!

 

good thing they have playdoh in safe rooms now across the fruited plain...

 

The proper purpose of government is to ban rights violations. Example: murder violates the right to life. Therefore murder is illegal.
Now apply this to speech. Does a lie violate rights? If so, which right does it violate and how?

 

You sound like an anti american facist.

Here are 3 liberals discussing this subject. Greenwald, a liberal, is sounding like liberals once sounded. Before they became, what appears to be, rather fascist in beliefs. Educate yourself as to what liberals are supposed to be. And it ain't you. IMO

 

The problem here is you have zero comprehension of "curtailing freedom of the press."

 

I'm obviously a socialist and the opposite of a fascist.... unless you hold a bizzarro-brainless right wing distortion of the definition of "fascist". What is a "fascist" to you?

White supremacists are fascists.
Nazis are fascists.
Both are racist.
You only quoted me saying "we don't need racist liars to guide us" and to you that is "fascist"??
Something is very wrong here.

Explain please.

 

It is normal for people to lie. That, in of itself, does not mean they are dishonest. It most certainly matters is it{s 18 or 1800. It{s the difference between a normal human being and a pathological liar.

18 lies is normal. Trump is not normal. And your trying to excuse him is obviously something you find is your duty in the Trump cult. But does not do well with normal rational people.

 

No I didn't. If you want to quote me, quote me. Don't make things up.

 

Because I pointed out your incorrect use of a term? Sure.. whatever you want. But, pedantic or not, fact is that I'm right. It's the only thing I strive for. I am not the subject of this discussion. So I suggest you do the same. If you are to contribute anything to this discussion, you need to discuss the facts. If you prefer to discuss me instead, you waste your time, and my time. Your silence would be better suited.

 

I see... So I guess it must be especially frustrating for you that somebody who has "zero comprehension" has left you with no arguments to respond to my point.

 

Politicians are dishonest even if other people are not. It is, again, part and parcel of politics both left and right and Trump is no better or worse than any other.

Sorry but you are being very dishonest as there is no trump cult and I am not even a trump supporter nor is anyone excusing him. What is happening is that your derangement syndrome is being corrected with facts and reality and you hate it.

 

You said ( in post #87 ) that " lying to the press is an attack on freedom of the press."

Which of course it is not.

 

sigh. i did quote you. i'll let your words speak for themselves...

"All of Obama's 18 and Trump's.... thousands... are an attack on free press... yes!"

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ch-is-important.539110/page-5#post-1069495443

"I have already explained how lying to the press is an attack on freedom of the press."

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ch-is-important.539110/page-5#post-1069496819

"Obama never attacked the press."

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...ch-is-important.539110/page-6#post-1069497141

so, yeah, i'm not making up anything. really looking forward to your reply on this one. really!

 

nothing incorrect about it. to be an apologist = to defend the indefensible = to apologize. simple grammatical device known as the economy of words. but i can see your tactic here, and it is as good as a direct admission that your argument is crap and you know it. not sure how you interpreted that as you being the subject of this discussion??? but whatevs.