Why is abortion such a big deal in the Christian world?

No, but other attributes are. A human with no mind is a thing, not a being. This applies to braindead humans, who are often alive in the biological sense, yet they are proclaimed legally dead. The same logic should also apply to undeveloped fetuses.

 

I disagree, a baby isn't even conscious of themselves until at least 18 months after birth. Therefore just go ahead and feel free to murder them up until that point as they are not yet conscious beings. A brain dead individual can no longer repair themselves and is far different than a fetus who will be conscious again given a natural timeframe.

 

Hmm ... what can I say... if you feel so. ...

Or with "other words": Jesus was legally murdered because he was a king while the romans were not able to accept any other authority than their own structures and ideas. Pontius Pilatus was not able to say "Who cares - I let you live - we will find another solution for this problem" - and so he murdered our king without being able to waste his empire. By the way: In most families today the children are the kings.

There is not death - after death there will come a new life - afterlife. That's what we believe and that's why we are the religion of life. Life is very very worthful for us. And we love life also here in this world. I am figthing against abortion with words then I'm not fighting for a pood afterlive of the killed babies - I'm speaking about this life here in our world. They have a right to be here.

Okay - you are right: it's not so easy to say so - that's maybe wrong in case someone kills little children. But indeed I personally don't live in fear of death - that's true. I think one day Jesus will enter and will smile with his eyes and will say to me "come to me" and I will answer "yes"

All animals are only able to live with the energy of plants and/or other animals. That's true. But what has this to do with abortion?

Hmm - you arguments are not convincing, although it is interesting that you found out that a kind of first guilt or a kind of injustice seems to exist so we are forced to kill and to eat other living entities. Nevertheless: Your hate against god and/or Christians, Jews and Muslims is not science. And your religion of "hate-science" is not very plausible. Why should laws not protect human beings but protect abortions only because Jews, Christians and Muslims are existing? Do you think it is "freedom" to have laws protecting abortions? To kill someone is a misuse of might and is not freedom. Love needs freedom - life is freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daGb3-OOulo

 

The strange thing is that someone is using such an "argument". A brain what is still not existing - but will exist in a few months - is not the same as a dead brain in the end of life. You don't think in the logic of time.

 

Both lifes are more important - but if a pregnant mother dies then normally the child in her will also die. But from year to year we are able to save younger children. I heard for example from a pregnant mother who fought as long as possible with inefficient soft methods against cancer - she was not ready to get the full medical support to save her life because her first emotional priority was her baby should live. And indeed it came in this way: She died - but the child lives. May she find rest in his arms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEBcR6F4vPk

 

And how many of those cases are cases where, despite taking part in the action we know "creates life", the woman didn't want to create life? Almost half. Clearly, there's some mental disconnect here. I want to have sex with my girlfriend. Not to create life, not to have a baby, not to procreate, but because it feels good, because we both enjoy it, and because it brings us closer together as people. The baby is not the end goal. It's an unwanted result. Hell, we've had sex upwards of 30 times now, and she's still not pregnant. And due to the physical unchaining of sex and pregnancy, I see no reason to continue the moral chaining of sex and pregnancy. Simply because someone chooses to have sex should not mean they are forever shackled to the consequences of that decision - especially when they did everything possible to ensure that that particular consequence would not happen.

This analogy doesn't work on a few levels. There is no offense involved in "robbing a store" (read: having sex) and when you rob a store at gunpoint, death is to be expected as potential collateral either way (given that there are multiple 99%+ secure contraceptives which can be used redundantly, it is not to be expected that sex leads to pregnancy if this is not the intent). Using the pill and condoms together while having sex, then claiming that getting pregnant was "expected collateral damage" would be like if the robber went off to rob the store using a jar of peanut butter, and the cashier happened to have a peanut allergy.

 

I never once claimed that right to property trumps right to life. The baby has as much a right to life as its mother and as much a right to property as its mother: that being, it does not have the right to deprive the mother of her property against her will to ensure its life.

No one is murdering anyone, so I don't see your point.

You are clearly one of those rightists who can't tell the difference between dying and being killed.

 

Starving North Koreans don't have a right to deprive Kim Jong Il of his property against his will to ensure their life.

 

The group I am referring to is the American right wingers.

I agree.

Merry Christmas!

A woman is a slave to her own biology the moment she is deprived of control over her own body.

There's probably some truth in that.

Read your bible. Read the parts where god is telling the Israelites to kill every living thing in a city they conquer. Men, women, children and even animals and then tell me these are not the orders of a psychopath.

You are fortunate to have such a dependable standard of truth.

I'm not interested in buying your grandmother, even if she were alive. I do believe that we all have something to teach each other.



Tyrant? ¿I? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYV-OaJKt7I

In the U.S., the Catholic churches council of bishops and the Republican party have been conducting campaigns to limit women's rights and their access to health care and protection from abuse.

It is not a baby nor is it a child.and aborting the result of a violent crime it is not another "wound".

It is ugly and intolerant.

That is true of all animals and of couse, if sex were not fun, we probabley wouldn't have survived as a species. With contraceptioni t is also a beautiful way for people who love each other to share what can be a transcendental experience without the risk of pregnancy.

U.S. congressman Todd Akin from Missouri.

I'm glad you asked. Since the beginning of time or of this planet (whichever you prefer) until I was born, I didn't exist. As far as I can see, I suffered no damage from the period of non existence. In your scenario, since I wouldn't exist as a person, I wouldn't be a "victim" of the death penalty any more than an egg sloughed off during a woman's period or the sperm in a nocturnal emission.

That is the next step in your logic, not mine. You are the one who wants to force women to do things agains their will.



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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that horse has left the barn, and it's not going back in. In fact, it's only going to get (from your perspective) worse as time goes by. Consensual non-monogamy is becoming much more prevalent in relationships, and I predict, within a century or two, it will be the most common form of relationship.

 

What right does Kim Jong Il have to that property? Can he show that he gained control of it legitimately and without using force?

 

Not saying the baby has to die, its just my opinion that a rape victim should not have to carry the baby if she chooses not to. I am not a woman, nor have I ever been raped, so I can only imagine how hard it would be for some to carry a baby to term when every day the fact of being pregnant would be a constant reminder of a traumatic event.

I see logic as subjective, I thought my argument was logical. But if we all agreed on logic, this forum would be far less interesting (-:

 

A woman is her biology. I don't understand the spiritual concept you are using here.

End of discussion. I don't see any sense to discuss with a psychopath who is callling god a psychopath about my belief in god only because he likes to ignore a few thousand years of history. Your completly respectless behavior is for me not acceptable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WBmqz_qh_o

 

It means something to you - but you are maybe not able to think about because you deny a part your possibilities. Indeed responsiblity and freedom are somehow the same. If all mankind is free then all mankind is able to make something wrong. So responsibility makes in the end no sense in manmade human laws - only natural human laws - real human laws - are creating this form of responsibility what allows us all to be free. So truth is not an empty phrase for anyone who likes to be free. The truth decides not we are deciding.

We Christians are thinking somehow this truth is a personal being what communicates with us. We say "In the beginning was the word [logos, truth] and the word was with god and god was the word" - and we are believing that god (logos, truth) created everything. So we can say "gods word"="logos"="truth"="laws of reality". Now comes a very strange difference between egocentralised human beings (let me call this beings "humanists") and god-centralised human beings (let me call them "Christians"). Christians don't think that their words are changing the reality - humanists do this. Humanists are thinking if they are creating laws everything is okay - but indeed lots of laws have nothing to with the reality and truth all around and are nothing else than only pi-bills. A pi-bill is the trying to redefine pi (=3,141592654.....) not with mathematical methods but with political methods ala "It's more easy to calculate with 4 instead of 3.14... so let us make a law to calculate with 4".

Let me come back now to the point "Why is abortion a big theme in the christian world". Let me say it this way now: The pi-bill "to allow abortions" makes us all blind for the truth of the reality in our communities and societies. The problems what lead to abortions will not be any longer solved from us if abortion is not a problem. Example: If a mother likes to abort her baby because she fears this baby will die of hunger - why to abort the baby? Why not to feed it? ... In the end our behavior our ideas our collective decisions (=manmade laws) will show wether the reality all around us is any longer able to accept us and what we are doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-3nOV2OBY

 

Your reasoning is based on a premise that religion/god is the truth, you cannot prove this to be true.

Lets us also not forget that abortion has been around a very, very long time .. even when JC was around, if it was such a sin then you would have thought it would have at least one mention in the bible .. it doesn't . though it is quick to mention such things as bearing false witness or not cutting your hair, do these things have a greater importance than (in your opinion) killing another human life.
I have found with most religious people that they are very a-la-carte with it, they pick and choose the bits they want to suit their ideas, and JC himself was very straight about the laws in Matthew 5: 17-18

How many Christians today do not cut their hair - Leviticus 19:27
or Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
or If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
or If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

There are also a number of verses telling Christians not to meddle in other peoples business .. but they do.

 

A big frigging BINGO on this one!

 

Abortion is wrong

- - - Updated - - -

Abortion is wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7z_bZ2D98o

 

By the same logic, lets ban contraception, it prevents the existence of future brains, too. Thats absurd.

Potential human being is not an actual human being, and does not have right to live.

 

No - this thought has nothing to do with reality again because in this case we are speaking about a possibility only and not about to kill a very concrete existing someone.

You are wrong again - a human being is biologically a human being from the first cell to the grave. I don't speak about a myth. But meanwhile I'm convinced that there's only one way for Christians to solve this conflict: we could die out. And I don't think god will allow us to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxu5FWkqbzk

 

You should start with "In my opinion ..."

You have to remember that not everyone adheres to your particularly religion and so to use your religion as a premise to a law is wrong, all that does is alienate other people .. in a democracy it is the majority that decide and the majority support abortion. It is interesting to note that the most conservative religious people are the ones who are most against abortion, where as Methodists see it as a matter of conscience. Religion & morals should have no place in making decisions about abortion, given that most religions have dubious morals through out their history.

 

Abortion is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDortyyp228

 

It's really interesting that you read nothing what I said here because I'm a Christian.

Abortion is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDortyyp228

 

I have read everything you have said .. I just don't agree with you, whether you are a Christian or not is irrelevant to me. I do find that Christians are ill informed, mostly illogical and prone to interpretation who seem to want to impose their particular brand of god onto others but that is their choice.
I am not trying to turn anyone away from what they believe . however .. if you are part of a debating forum and use your beliefs to bolster your opinions then you will be questioned on them, just as I am questioned on my opinions.

It is easy to just write "Abortion is wrong" without showing why it is wrong, you may think its wrong because of your Christian beliefs .. but you do have to remember not everyone has those beliefs and so may not agree with you.

 

Thank you for ceding the point. By saying "religion of death" I do not mean Christians want to go out and kill people. What I mean is that the religion itself .. same for Islam.. focuses on death/afterlife more than life here on earth in many cases.

In many cases this is regional.. some organizations focus on death more than others .. certainly there are ways in which Christianity in could be called "the religion of life" .. but more accurately this would be "the religion of life after death".

It shows that God created humans such that they need to kill life in order to survive. This is a counterclaim to any arguments claiming that the God of Christianity dislikes abortion because "God values life". Clearly God does not value life that much given the system created by God.

"Your hate against god and/or Christians, Jews and Muslims" This is an absurd and extremely rude comment .. aside from being ad hom .. and that it has zero to do with the topic.

And what in Gods name are you talking about "religion of hate-science" ?

If you do not like being told what the Bible says .. for goodness sakes do not shoot the messenger.

The rational for law has nothing to do with Religions people .. nor should it. To the contrary my argument is that Religion has no place in the law.
The second argument I make is that the Bible does not condemn abortion.

Abortion is commanded by God in the Mosaic laws and some of prophets pray for abortion numerous times.

Not all abortion is "killing someone". Your assumed premise is that "all abortion kills someone" is a logical fallacy "assuming the premise".

The reason it is a fallacy is that you have not shown your premise to be true.

You have not refuted my comments which show that the Bible supports abortion .. nor have you shown that the Bible condemns abortion
You have not given any support via science to support your claim.

Thus.. to claim that your premise is true .. "all abortion kills someone" .. is a logical fallacy.

This has nothing to do with what I think about Christianity .. and everything to do with you having no valid support for your claim so far.

 

What is completly uninteresting meanwhile. I'm not a member of the english speaking world where propagandisms seem not be the only form of "understandable arguments."

Abortion is wrong.

Bye bye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fToY0ExPs4I