Why Marijuana Should Not Be Decriminalized Right Now

This is a guy who personally would have no problem with killing Muslims, do you really expect him to explain any logic to you?

 

Doesn't matter if you are a libertarian, statist, corporatist or maoist, we got bills to pay. $16,000,000,000,000 dollars worth. A tax on marijuana might help some.

 

Doesn't matter if you are a libertarian, statist, socialist, corporatist or maoist. We got bills to pay and a marijuana tax might help some.

 

So no substantive reply?

You just aren't able to support any of the statements and conclusions you made that I refuted?

You arent' able to come up with the superior alternatives you claim exist?

In the end your argument comes down to: "Marijuana should be illegal because I think intoxication is bad"

I think Prohibition of alcohol and Prohibition of Marijuana has shown how wrong headed that approach is.

 

No tax can solve our problems because of our government's lust to spend. More revenues means more spending. We have an irresponsible government that won't apply any new revenues to the deficit, and you know it. The best course of action is to starve the beast, not aggrandize it.

 

Then explain why you so often call for big Govt solutions to your problems?
This thread being a prime example.

 

Because government does well those things it's philosophically suited for, such as protecting the safety of its citizens from internal and external threats. Explanation rendered.

 

Wrong on so many counts. First off there are already laws about commiting crimes, and being under the influece of any drug, including alcohol, is no excuse. Secondly companies already have rules about being intoxicated at work and again it does not matter what drug it is, legal or illegal. I will also remind you that the gateway drug is not pot, it is Alcohol. And lastly I would point out that those that smoke pot after if it legal will be the same people that smoke it when it is illegal, know why, because the already do smoke it, nothing will change. The time to legalize pot is way overdue and there are no real reasons to do otherwise other than to support your own opinion on those you disagree with through laws, not very Freedom Loving of ya.

 

Which explains quite well why Prohibition of Alcohol failed and why Prohibition of Marijuana is failing to protect the safety of our citizens.

 

Have you noticed that most of the people who are promoting the government prohibition of drugs are usually the ones who preach small government and individual liberty?

 

You think government is philosophically suited for supressing the right to use drugs? The "war on drugs" is going well, then? LOL

 

But not every opinion is eligible for force of law. Force of law is for guaranteeing rights, not supressing them.

 

In your opinion.

 

Not opinion. Fact. Any law that violates a right is a not a valid law.

 

It's an inherently philosophical argument, not an absolute fact.

 

In America it's a fact. Read the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

 

Like all Leftists, you draw "rights" out of thin air. There is no right to use drugs. Furthermore, you can't demonstrate that the war on drugs is NOT going well. Pointing to flaws and imperfections does not make the case that the war isn't a worthy effort. You eclectically ignore the massive drug seizures at the border, the shutting down of drug organizations using federal RICO statutes, the sheer number of poisoners who are locked up for decades, the education in schools that persuade kids to stay away from drugs, and the fact that more gang members and drug trafficking organized crime bosses are in jail than out on the streets. No war is perfect, but every ounce of cocaine, heroine, and marijuana seized is that much less on the streets. The war on drugs has a strong history of success to point to and all the pothead Left has as evidence that it has failed is pointing out that it's not perfect. That's pathetic.

 

There mostly certainly is a right to use drugs. Saying it isn't so doesn't change the fact. God gave us all free will and you have no right to interfere with anyone's use of it until they are directly harming someone else.

If the goal of the drug war is to sieze some drugs and lock some people up, then it is indeed successful. If the goal of the drug war is to eliminate drug use, it's a miserable failure. Anyone who wants drugs can get them. They are more expensive than they would be, but they are still affordable by the vast majority of people who want them. But even if the "war" were successful at eliminating drug use, it would still be immoral as a violation of your right to live your life the way you see fit.

So natural rights, the DoI and the constitution are "leftist", eh? Or do you just apply that label to all who oppose your tyrannical views?

 

That's at variance with the American traditional understanding of God given rights that is enshrined in our founding documents. God didn't give man the right to self medicate, man assumed that for himself. So when we're talking about "rights" we're talking about those divinely vouchsafed, not the endless litany of "rights" that are as unlimited as the expanses of the human imagination. You make up "rights" to suit your fancy. But those aren't rights.

The War on Drugs was never meant to eliminate drugs, only to reduce it's availability and to apply consequences for the use, distribution, manufacture, and trafficking of drugs. And it has been executed magnificently.

 

Well that is a fairly self serving definition of success- the federal bureaucracy would love that one- essentially your definition of success is if any drugs at all are seized, the 'War on Drugs' is a success.

I would say it is a blindig failure to any rational person.

Anyone knowing economics knows that 'massive drug seizures' are not a sign of success but a sign of failure. The way the laws of supply and demand work is that if you have a constant demand, reducing supply just increases price, and increases the motivation to smuggle drugs in. The fact that there are still 'massive drug' smuggling operations going on- 50 years after the "War on Drugs' started shows what a failure it is.

"Shutting down Drug Operations due to Rico"- seriously this is like saying that Germany was winning World War 2 when it defeated American troops at the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge. Unless you reduce the impact drugs are having in the U.S. there is no success- even by the Prohibitionists standards. Shut down one drug cartel and another takes up the slack.

Education in schools- well thats great- who would be against that. What has that got to do with the war on drugs- and is it effective? How much did "Just say No" have on drug use in the United States?

"more drug trafficking organized crime bosses are in jail than out on the streets."

Where do you get this cannard? I really have no stats either way but since a new organized crime boss moves in whenever one is put in prison this claim seems extremely dubious.

The only measure of whether the War on Drugs is succeeding is by the effects.
What is the amount of illegal drug use in the United States.
Is it declining due to the War on Drugs?
Is organized crime declining in the U.S. due to the War on Drugs?
Is violence associated with the drug trade falling?
Is there less drug abuse?

And since this thread is about marijuana use specifically- tell me how the War on Drugs specifically is succeeding against marijuana 'abuse'.

How many American lives have been saved from Marijuana abuse due to the 'War on Drugs"?

 

Okay well lets use that as the measure.

Has the "War on Drugs' reduced availability of Marijuana?

By how much? You say it has been executed 'magnifcently'- so you must have these numbers.

And 'apply consequences for the use'- in other words- put people in jail for using Marijuana- exactly what you have been arguing isn't happening.

The "War on Drugs" i.e. Marijuana Prohibition is as spectacular a failure as the Prohibition of Alcohol was.

The War on Drugs has created and enriched organized crime.
The War on Drugs has created a black market where organized crime kills thousands of people a year.
The War on Drugs has jailed and imprisoned millions of Americans for the sin of using or growing marijuana.
The War on Drugs has wasted billions of tax payer dollars.
The War on Drugs has not prevented a single Marijuana overdose or addiction- since neither are possible.
The War on Drugs has created a culture that flaunts the law- just like the Prohibition did.

 

Ha! I see you still haven't mastered how to separate quotes for a point by point response, even after the tutorial I just gave you on how to do it. To not seem impolite, that I'm just ignoring you, I'll let you know right off that I'm not going to sift through all that to separate your statements from mine because you refuse to learn HTML. Besides that, you're just one of many flying monkeys that flap around every time I post a thread like this, so there's no reason to afford you any more attention than anyone else. You're far from unique in your push to legalized drugs just so you can get high without getting arrested. In fact, it just makes you one more of the throngs of zombies out there. You are very unremarkable.

 

Actually it's in 100% agreement with the principles expressed in our founding documents. God did not list specific rights, he simple gave us free will. By your reasoning, God did not give the right to free speech either. What God wants us to do or not do is not a political matter, it's a spiritual and religious matter that has no place in the law.

Whatever your measure of "success", it's a moral outrage that should be opposed by all means possible by everyone who values their liberty.

 

Even if I wanted to buy marijuana I wouldn't know where to go. It isn't sold over the counter, through the mail, or by any other legitimate means. I would have to find criminals to supply it. Simply by being illegal, I'm already several steps removed from acquiring it.

Of drug seizures? They're in the news everyday. Everything I said is well within the axiom of public knowledge. I'm not going to accomodate your laziness.

I never argued that. I said that people aren't doing serious time just for getting high; that the hard time is served by the manufacturers, distributors, and traffickers of poison. And that is true.

It depends on how you define success. Fewer people drank alcohol during prohibition for the same reason that escapes the Pothead Left today, that most people will obey the law and stay away from anything that smacks of being illegal.

Anyone in organized crime trafficking drugs very quickly ends up either dead or in prison. Federal crackdowns on organized crime have met with stunning success and the age of crime families has all but ended.

And you were asking me for numbers? Where do you get yours?

Good. Every day they spend in jail is a day they aren't menacing the safety of my family.

I'm a tax payer and I don't consider it a waste. I want government to do all it can to inhibit drugs on my streets.

I never claimed that marijuana kills those addicted to it.

All law creates a culture that flaunts the law, among those predisposed to do so. Just because you're a criminal doesn't make it so for the rest of us.

 

I value my liberty, therefore I don't want my neighbor to run a meth lab. Your definition of "liberty" is the same as your PF handle, which is really anarchy. Anarchy doesn't produce liberty.