Why should I oppose abortion? GIVE ME A VALID REASON.

Please change it to abortion on REQUEST. "On demand abortion" makes it sound as if the pregnant woman is stomping her foot and screeching to get her way. Actually women are usually pretty compliant and polite.

 

Your denial means nothing at all.

 

It is arbitrary, as you admit, which is unacceptable as a threshold for basic human rights.

 

Because, as cognitive beings, every human being is the highest known expression of the full intent of the universe. The arrival of a human being at conception represents the most forceful effort of the universe to be creative and self-developing. There is nothing in the unviverse that's more powerful or meaningful. Anyone who denies this, for even the simplest of reasons, has never really looked into the eyes of an innocent child.

 

Well no actually, it is not arbitrary throughout the whole process.

Your assumption that because viability is arbitrary through some of the process, that it is arbitrary throughout the whole process is invalid.

 

There are people on the extreme on any side of any issue. They are not worth the effort. I do not recall the last time anyone claimed that here.

We are naturally wired for self preservation, but here is a twist. Many have sacrificed their own life or at least risked it for the life of others. That would indicate that we can place a higher significance on the life of others over our own. Again, it becomes a subjective quali or quanti-fication.

Yes, some, but definitely not all.

Potential can not override actual.

Not to the extent of making restrictive public policy.

I am not confusing the issue, it is that I am not willing to sit in judgement of what is or is not "convenient" in others lives.

Demand includes a motive and again, without intimate knowledge of circumstances, conditions and reasons I do not wish to make determinations for others.

Not the same to everyone. In the grand scheme of things your life would be sacrificed anytime for the "greater good" whatever that subjective determination would be.

Yes.

It seems to me that that base level is no more than mere existence. To me existence by itself is worthless.

 

Not in the least my friend. It is an arbitrary measurement as a threshold, which is all that matters here.

 

Not through the whole process, "Depending on the definition of viability".

Perhaps what is arbitrary is the definition of viability. Depending on how viability is defined will affect where the boundaries are.

This is why it is important to get out what definition of viability is being used because with out a definition to work from we can not make any claims at all relative to whether the demarkation line between viability and non viability is arbitrary or not.

 

Whaler only used definitions when he thinks the definition proves his point and avoids them like the plague when the definition shows he is wrong.

 

The definition I used proves the point. There are none that disprove it, or you would have posted them long ago instead of your schoolyard nanny nanny boo boo posts.

 

How can you prove a point if you do not define the point? Had you been able to prove your point you would not have evaded posting the definition of an organism, but you know well that it contradicts you so you avoid it and continue to make claims that you can not support.

 

I see that you are still ranting and raving and frothing at the mouth instead of proving your point (because we all know you can't do that). At least try to make a useful argument every once in a while will you?

 

How is that sinking feeling?
Grab onto lifting honesty. Post the definition of an organism and tell us why a zygote is one.

 

"A zygote (or zygocyte) is a term in Developmental biology used to describe the first stage of a new unique organism when it consists of just a single cell. "


Your reading comprehension failure is getting severe!

 

Hoooo Boy,

It is even worse than I thought. READ!

 

Why not all?

A human life just having potential provides actual inherent value. Please explain why you think it would not. Is there not actual value in each human life because of potential?

So you seem to agree that the potential of each human life does provide each human life with value.

I’m not advocating restrictive public policy.

Regardless, each human life should be protected by those in responsible charge of the human life first. If the mother’s life is in serious jeopardy because of the pregnancy, or the pregnancy was the result of rape these for me justify an abortion because it would still be protecting the value of each human life to the best of our ability. The vast majority of other reasons if not all other reasons do not outweigh the value inherent in each human life.

You didn’t answer the question. Take away your subjective determinations and answer this: Does my life have zero value?

Don’t worry; I won’t take offense if you say yes, since I know for a fact my life does have value no matter how you answer.

Yes, except “mere existence” as a human life includes potential which gives each human life an inherent value.

 

Well in this case .. any definition would at least serve as a starting point.

It is pointless to comment on whether viability is arbitrary or not without a definition of viability.

For example, we could define viability as "the ability at some point in the future to grow into or create a human"

Under this definition all human cells are viable .. even sperm !

 

Hmmmm .. First off , I would claim that "a human" does not exist in the early stages of pregnancy.

The second point is interesting. I think this is the one area where there is agreement among the majority of folks in the debate .. "potential"

The zygote is in the process of creating a human and therefor, if this process is left unchecked there is the potential that a human will be created.

What is the "inherent value" of this potential and how do we weigh this potential against the inherent value of the rights of the mother over her own body ?

 

Look it up it is easy. The you can show us why a zygote is an organism.

 

A human life has value because of what it is, sometimes what it IS shows a potential for becoming or producing something more. A zef only has value for what it is, if what it is is what the woman wants. Sometimes an unwanted zef only has a potential for becoming something unwanted. Society as a whole really doesn't value zefs, the value begins as a human being at birth. Individual prospective parents may value zefs or not.

There is no reason why the child as a result of rape is of less value than any other. You have decided why certain reasons justify abortion in your mind, but you must allow others to make their own decisions based on what they think is justified.

Every sperm and every egg is human life which has potential but we do not treat them as objects of value. We are quite cavalier in our disposal of human eggs and sperm.

 

None are a unique human life. That is where that simple minded approach falls apart!

 

Do you have evidence that eggs and sperm have duplicates? They are human life, and I am unaware that anyone checks them for duplication. The point here, that you missed, is that the potentiality of egg/sperm human life is not especially valued and there is no reason to assume that the value of a connected egg/sperm has increased simply because of their meeting.

 

The point that you refuse to recognize is that neither is capable of resulting in a human being without the other. Once they meet, they become one entity and that entity, the zygote, is a new human being. Never before that point was the single entity human being in existence. This is the significance of their meeting. Once they do, a new human being exists.

Don't really care if you want to deny it, it is fact!

 

The subject is POTENTIAL. Sorry, but the egg and sperm have just as much POTENTIAL before they meet as after they meet. If you are going to be assigning value or worth based on potential, you cannot in good conscience ignore eggs and sperm which are LOADED with POTENTIAL.

 

Since when does uniqueness determine anything about humanity or abortion? By that logic identical twins are redundant and one should be killed so uniqueness can be maintained.