Will near death experience accounts transform psychiatry and psychology?

Interesting story.
Is the spirit guide unbeknownst sister dead? How else could she have been a spirit guide, right?

Now is this as a story to say there is another realm outside of physical earth or proof of the God(s) of Abraham?

 

She is deceased, yes.

Most NDE's not only don't offer evidence of the god(s) of Abraham, in fact they tend to refute it.

 

OK, thanks. I tend to think NDEs would have people see/experience what is known from their environment.

 

Not universally true, but in a majority of cases that does seem to be the case.

 

Yard eat, the aware study was important in more ways then one . Parnia now believes that more then 18% of people don't have an nde because medication and brain damage during the time of the nde interferes with the brains ability to remember the nde .
Remember also that just because everyone doesn't have an nde that they can remember , it doesn't take away from the fact of the Nde's that were remembered or happened to the 18% of people .

These Nde's just can't be explained by materialistic means alone. Why not try emailing someone like eben or another nde experiencer so that you can get up close and personal (in an indirect way) with the nde itself ?

 

Actually colonel , doctor parnia is now renaming near death experiences . He is now calling them actual death experiences . Just because these people haven't been dead to the point where their neurons have physically rotted away doesn't mean they weren't dead . This is just semantics now .

People like the 57 year old aware patient were for all intents and purposes offline or dead during that 3 minute stage .

This is why oxford trained professor patricia churchland who is an expert in the philosophy of neuroscience got demolished in her skeptiko interview with alex tsakiris in the subject if Nde's . Despite being an expert in this area , in order to hold to her militant atheist worldview she actually had to lie about doctor Pim van lommels nde research saying that he agrees with her that Nde's have a neurological explanation even though alex who personally interviewed doctor Lommel before quoted Lommel as saying that Nde's don't have a neurological explanation .

Everyone here can access doctor lommels views on his study by doing a simple search on YouTube for him.
Professor churchland flat out distorts lommels views in her own book.

This is why if someone wants to remain a militant atheist/materialist it's better if they stay away from the evidence in nde research . The science itself contradicts what their worldview says about Nde's .

As I said before most nde researchers start out as atheists but convert away from atheism after completing their nde research . I never said they become Christians or Muslims but they are no longer atheists for sure .

The only one who hasn't converted yet is doctor parnia who is an agnostic, but while in 2010 he believed that Nde's are hallucinations caused by a dying brain , in 2015 he clearly no longer believes it.

Was it faith that caused him to change his mind ?
Absolutely not
It was the scientific evidence.

 

Absolutely right QChan , the atheist/materialist is squeezed into a tight corner and the only way he can try to wiggle out as a last resort is to wiggle out with semantics .

Why do you think that sam Harris chickened out of a debate with eben Alexander on this subject ? Lol
I predict that by the aware 2 study sam Harris probably won't be a materialist anymore .
Some if his language privately has started to change but when he's around his fellow militant atheists he reverts back . Maybe it's peer pressure ?

But I do predict that Harris will be the first of the 4 horsemen of atheism to abandon his atheism come aware 2 .

In The aware study , some of the patients only had the signs with the numbers hanged in their rooms . Lucky for militant atheists that the 57 year old social worker was one if the rooms they didn't hang a sign on. It had to be kept completely random .

 

Simply is true , even though no evidence , no matter how compelling would ever convince anyone who has already made up their mind
All of the evidence so far points to survival of consciousness .
Why not at least try to salvedge your atheism like doctor Penrose by trying to find an explanation that fits your worldview and still allow for survival of consciousness .

How about this colonel . Try finding one actual nde researcher that is still an atheist

 

QChan , this is another reason why Nde's are so powerful , especially for an argument against militant atheists like colonel . Nde's will cause the militant atheist to abandon his supposed love for science . He must abandon science because in the case of Nde's the science is moving away quickly from the "nde is a hallucination caused by the dying brain " theory .

Colonels type of atheism is a dogmatically religious fundamentalist atheism . I find no differed between his fundamentalist atheism and someone that is a religious fanatic .

 

She was dead many years before dairy . I never use Nde's to prove one particular religion over another .
One of the many commonalities of Nde's is that most experiencers who do enter the other realm do see a light that is all loving and knows them personally . This is what almost all nde experiencers share .

While it isn't proof of one particular religion over another , it destroys one if the major legs that militant atheism/materialism stands on, namely that this material world isn't all there is and that there is a soul and that it does survive physical death .

The nde science itself is headed in this direction and instead of slowing down the evidence is accelerating .
Ask doctor jeffrey long
Doctor penny sartori
Doctor Pim van Lommel
And all the others who started out as atheist/materialist but no longer believe atheism . They all tell us now that through their nde research that we are special,we are loved, we are cherished and that we are immortal being created by God . They just don't talk about any one particular religion when espousing their new views.

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Yes these Veridcal Nde's
As far as Nde's where they travel outside of this realm there have been people that experience a view that they never knew about or believed .

 

Well I wouldn't say they refute the abrahamic God . Former atheist nde experiencers professor Howard storm and Ian McCormick both saw hell and Jesus and are both pastors now because of their nde experience .

When gary habermas was on the skeptiko show he said that Nde's only show so much , that we must use other data as well. Habermas almost became a Buddhist but converted to Christianity after he finished his phd dissertation on the resurrection . Everytime habermas brought up the resurrection alex tsakitis would shy away from it . Alex is own of those that believes in life after death but at the same time he is an anti Christian , anti religion guy who is spiritual . I would characterize his worldview as being a general universalist.

I myself am a Christian inclusivist .
Inclusivists believe that as long as someone was searching for God with all their hearts honestly then they can be saved even if they aren't from the Christian faith .
Examples are someone that was brought up in an all Hindu environment or all Muslim environment, or someone that grew up in a fire and brimestone church that wasn't taught The love that true Christianity offers .

I was once at a religious retreat with a bunch of nuns and they interview every new person there and my interviewer asked me what was troubling me . I then opened up to her about my fear for my non Christian friends and being scared that they would end up in hell.

The nun looked at me and smiled and then told me about a dream that she had when she was a child.
Her mom overheard her yelling and screaming in sleep . When the mom asked the young child what was wrong , the child answered "mom , mom, the Presbyterians had it right , we are all going to hell !!!"

The mom looked at the young child and said "do you really believe that this is the kind of God we worship"

The child said " come to think of it mom , your right "

 

many Atheists believe in life after death, all it means to be Atheist is that you do not believe in a God (Christians and other religion do not believe in most of the same Gods Atheist disbelieve in)

it really doesn't matter what we believe as we will all reach enlightenment, it will just take some longer then others....


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If you take mainstream christian beliefs to be correct, MOST people who experienced an NDE not only would see hell, but would be permanently stuck there. But the number of people who see it at all is extraordinarily small, and even they seem (for the most part), to have been "released" quite quickly. Rather the theme seems to be that pretty much everyone (with perhaps a very small amount of dissent) seems to experience bliss, love, and acceptance, regardless of what they did or did not believe, or what actions they did or did not partake in. Because that is so contrary to what christianity preaches, I have concluded that whatever "god" is out there, it is not the one described in the bible. That guy is a prick.

 

I agree 100%. I've seen an NDE turn a totally militant atheist into a hardcore Christian pastor. If NDEs have that kind of power, then people simply can't scoff at them. Heck, I've seen grown men break down in tears on national television over NDEs. What kind of experience could have such a powerful impression on a person, and why would some people ever doubt these sorts of experiences? It completely boggles the mind.

 

If there's no objective evidence then it's woo woo.

 

There is no objective evidence of Parkinson's Disease, nor is there a test for it. Is it woo woo?

 

Bizarre thinking there.

 

Again dental , to say that most nde experiences are not of hell doesn't tell the while story . Most people do not open up about the negative nde experiences and the media doesn't usually care much about them. Is say it's more then what being talked about out there , how much more is up for debate .

As far as the personality of the abrahamic God , why is it that I don't see him this way ? Why is it that a few billion Christians don't see him that way . Most people doing a bare bone reading if the bible see the God of the Old Testament as a stern and giving out justice and Jesus as this lovey dovey guy, when in fact a deeper reading of the bible reveals a different story. In fact it is Christ that talks about the wailing and gnashing of teeth in hell and not God the father in the Old Testament .

If the God of the bible is the true God (as I believe he is ) then he is the objective moral law giver and us calling him good or bad holds a lot less meaning because we are not the objective moral law giver .

Anyways as I said , I'm an inclusivist as were almost all the early Christians of the first through 15th century so again we believe that as long as someone is searching for God innocently with all his heart he is ok with God .

An example of how God of the Old Testament can be misread if digged into is the massacre of the canannites which if read on the surface makes God look like a tyrant but if you dig deeper like I have u would know that it's not the case . I also have another soecial interest in the canannites as they were are my ancestors

 

Oops , my ipad is acting up again , what I meant is "even though the evidence no matter how good it is"
Android tablets are much better on the spell check

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This is the key here my friend

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I'm an inclusivist

 

I don't see god as an a stand-alone entity. Rather, I prefer the term Source (semantics), and Source is literally EVERYTHING. This entire universe, you me, the car you drive, and the computer you're reading this post on is a figment of Sources imagination. We, as conscious beings, are little tiny slices of source, separated from that knowledge, playing a giant MMORPG from the inside and not even realizing it. Since source is everything, there literally cannot be "hell". Just pure, raw consciousness trying to learn and grow. And maybe have some fun at the same time.

 

Very interesting
Would you say that your worldview is more pantheistic in a way .
My uncle is a deist so in a way he believes as you do , but he doesn't believe that the deity he worships grows .

Your view also seems close to panentheistic.

Also what is your view on the theory that the universe is part of some giant hologram .
There seems to be some validity to this theory .

 

Have you read what near death experiencer Kevin Williams wrote about this?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research08.html#a04
The Holographic Universe and the Near-Death Experience

 

Have you seen the video of a near death experiencer speaking before the United Nations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYLL_kEptFA
Evangelist Lee Stoneking ~ United Nations General Assembly Address

 

I just did... But he doesn't really speak on his NDE story. I wonder if there's another video where he's doing this.

 

Nice link dennis . I think this ties in with the worldview of panentheism , which the Greek Orthodox believe in as a way of describing the universes relationship with God notice also in the link that they also talk about mathametical physicist roger Penrose and his microtubles theory. Penrose is an atheist, yet still believes in life after death.

Here is another video that ties in closely with the link you gave me.

Quantum physics debunks materialism

http://youtu.be/4C5pq7W5yRM