Islamophobes are pathetic

There are many Islamophobes around these days. When I was still investigating the character of Islam as a creed I found their highly critical arguments interesting or at least compelling. However after reading more and more general literature in the subject, such individuals have really become quite boring and generally presented a character of pathetic prejudice and bias rather than intelligence, sincerity and factual reasoning. Individually they are often some of the most dismally ignorant folk on the planet making arguments by copying tripe from the same website or mentioning books they themselves hardly explain. It's not that ignorance itself is bad, rather that these Islamophobes are incapable of debate. They are so pathetically childish they would first accuse you of being some conspiratorially lying Muslim before actually following through and refuting the facts. These people think in a complete binary - either you agree that Islam is entirely bad or else you are either completely wrong or a future criminal. It's just dissappointing. You can't actually talk to these people. This however will be their undoing and is the current for the fringe status of anti-Islamic ideology. You can refute them, calmly, succinctly and with complete clarity and they will throw out the same arguments with complete disregard for reality. Islamophobes are pathetic. Ultimately, it's their loss.

 

Meh, people are products of their time. I'd probably be the very same way had I received the same info they had. I don't think they're going away any time soon, and I don't think I can change them in any way. People tend to fall for conspiracies or generalisations when they view certain people as a group. Happens to all kinds of groups, has happened throughout history, sometimes in times when they should have been more inclined to know better.

 

You r right, I'm misri, so i understand arabic, sometimes english speakers ctrl-c funny material and think that's what destroy islam, when i read, i find it's not worthy of even refutation. It indicate complete ignorance of the copier, they think they know something, while alhamduliah, i memorize quran by heart ie hafiz, they say look, contradictions, violence,,, while reading their claims, u feel depressed.

 

I think you sort of hit on the sociological / psychological aspect of this. I'd like to add that, possibly, when people feel like they aren't in control or their government isn't in control, the abandonment of evidence based reasoning is seemingly defaulted to as a result of fear. Suddenly the all powerful government that they thought was all about "x" or "y" or "z"...you know..AMURIKA, is actually just another institution filled with people like everyone else.

Add the aspect of grouping people together in broad sweeping generalizations, and it makes it all that more easier to create an enemy in ones mind. We become detached from the personal aspect of the singular members of that group (who actually might be very much like us).

 

According to liberals, anybody who criticizes Islam in any way shape or form is an islamophobe, jut like anybody who criticized homosexuals in any way shape or form is a homophobe. According to them you can't criticize these people in any way shape or form because the conservatives do it. And that's really the only arguments they have.

Which is just wrong, pure and simple.

Which makes liberals crticizeophobes. And conservaphobes.

 

Hey, look! It's those broad sweeping generalizations we were referring to (albeit not directed at Muslims). I consider myself to be liberal, and I do think there is plenty to criticize about Islam.

 

Go over to Democratic Underground website and criticize Islam, and see what you get.

I dare you.

Sometimes generalizations are true.

If you can pull it off I will congratulate you.

But you'll see that I am right.

I predict that if you criticize Islam in any way shape or form they will get hostile to you insult and berate you to no end and call you a dirty rotten conservative ********* and all that nonsense.

Here's the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/

 

I am no Muslim, I have no problem with criticizing Mohammed, Islam, the Qu'ran, the Suras, the sunni/shia conflict, the Islamic governments of certain states or the terrorists who use religion to justify their deeds to themselves and others. (I make no claim to speak for liberals in general, though.)

I do however think that the way Islam is portrayed in certain media, such as the internet, is unfair when compared to, amongst others, Christianity. I'll be the first to claim that there are verses in the Qu'ran that I think are wrong and outright immoral, but I see such verses in the Bible as well. Any Christian who doesn't check all their food for pork or shellfish shouldn't be surprised if a Muslim ignores their call to kill infidels.

I strive towards freedom, and it is my belief that practical freedom is most easily achieved through equality. At the moment, Christians control the US, and as a consequence, the a large part of the world (this is not the place to discuss the exact role of Judaism, so I'll leave that to other subforums). I believe that your ability to get a job, walk safe at night or be elected President should not depend on whether you're named Mohammed or have been brought up preferring Abu Bakr before St. Peter. I don't think any liberal or otherwise minds discussions where Islam is being honestly and intelligently contested, but I and many with me will challenge any arguments that could be used just as well against the person making the argument. I'd do the same for Christianity, but there are so many Christians here that they tend to beat me to it.

 

That has nothing to do with your generalization of "According to liberals, anybody who criticizes Islam in any way shape or form is an islamophobe, jut like anybody who criticized homosexuals in any way shape or form is a homophobe. According to them you can't criticize these people in any way shape or form because the conservatives do it. And that's really the only arguments they have."

I've shown you where it doesn't apply, and you still cling to it.

Your "dare" also doesn't take into account what specifically is being criticized and how it is being criticized, whereas your generalization asserts "anybody who criticizes Islam in any way shape or form".

For example, there is a difference in saying "The good teachings found in Islamic scripture do not justify or excuse the bad and horrific teachings", and saying "All Muslims subscribe to these bad teachings". The latter criticism is likely to bring about the ire of those who live in reality and understand the nuance of reality, and likely as a direct result of its broad sweeping generalization. This does not necessitate insults, nor does it necessitate that those who disagree with this generalization do not find criticism among many things about Islam.

 

I don't think it's fair to critisize the Bible for showing a nation at war, but therin lies the biggest difference between Islam and Christianity.

Islam makes all warfare and eternal present, meaning that warfare against a group of non-Muslims is turned into a call to war for all times. If Muhammad sent his Muslim Armies to march against his enemies in 623 AD, that same exhortation stands in 2011 or even beyond. In the Bible, if the Israelis went to war with someone, there is a context of what was being done to them, how the war started and how and why it ended. There are no open ended calls to holy war in the Bible. Yes, there are wars, but they're treated much the same as wars are reported in newspapers -- as an event from history, not as a call to kill all of a nation, nor as a call to kill all that are not like me.

That alone makes for a great potential for Islamic violence. It's much easier to ignore context when a holy text provides none.

 

You haven't shown me anything,

But I'll just take this as a cop out because you won't go and see for yourself.

Liberals will berate and anybody who criticizes Islam in any way, just so they can have their high moral ground.

I've been seeing it for years, so you can't tell me it doesn't happen.

You liberals are all alike, every single one of you. You can't stand dissension, and you hate anything that isn't liberal.

You may think it's a bigoted thing, and I'll completely agree, but all you guys do is berate and insult anything that isn't liberal. That is the truth. Deny it all you want to.

You people are among the most bigoted and hateful people on the face of this planet, and I will continue to rate you guys right there with antisemites and other racists and bigots until you can actually prove me wrong and not berate and insult anybody who isn't liberal.

I know you won't take my dare under any circumstance either, because you know it will happen to you.

And being right is serious business, especially among liberals.

 

I think it's perfectly fair to criticize the government and culture perpetuated by Islamic countries.

I do, however, think some people forget that at one point Christian countries were just like this. It's not a fault of Islam in itself--If Christians followed the Old Testament literally we'd all be living in that kind of world too--they just haven't had the same intellectual movements that the Western world has had, such as in the Enlightenment in Europe. Maybe someday they'll get to that point too, but for now most Muslims prefer living in societies governed by religion.

 

Internet Rule number 169: If Islam is criticized then Christianity must be criticized for what it did in the past and not what it is today.

Kind of like a Godwin's law.

In other words, people can not criticize Islam without someone bringing up Christianity. It's impossible.

Sad to say.

 

Except it's perfectly valid. I wasn't defending the culture of Islam in Islamic countries, now was I? I'm only saying that the people who think Islam is inherently "violent religion" forget the past too easily. The religion of Christianity didn't change, people's morals did, and they began to ignore the parts of the Bible that embraced violence. The same can happen with Islam, if they choose to do so. The problem is that those countries don't like "Western" influence at all. I don't think Christianity is inherently bad, just like I don't think Islam is inherently bad. It's how people choose to interpret them.

 

I totally agree. Whilst I dont think they will be going away soon, I dont feel they will attract enough adherence to seriously affect general social views and political policy.

 

This is exactly what I am talking about. If you aren't accepted you label them as "liberal" and as people who are in complete denial. Well, for your information, I'm not a liberal, and I do not liberally apply the term Islamophobe. There is a distinction between many critics of Islam - most are not Islamophobes, but some are and almost all who spout the extraordinarily ignorant and arrogant views of Islam as entirely violent amongst other things are indeed Islamohpobic. You can see most critics of Islam, take a famous one like the late Christopher Hitchens, is not an Islamophobe.

 

Not at all. Like all religions, Islam is zsubjective. If you want to beleive Muhammad's actions in the 7th century should applies with the exact same violence today, which has an entirely different environment (ie one where violence is not necessary where it was in Muhammad's time) then no one can stop you, but you can easily do the same with the Bible. You say it is easier to manipulate the Quran than the Bible. I have not seen evidence of that.

ps. Muhammad strictly stated that context HAS TO be incorporated into understandings of the Quran. Look up Asbab al-nuzul and general practices of tafsir - Quranic exegesis.

 

People certainly use Christianity as a non-sequitur, but I use it to point out the inconsistency of the reasoning often employed to attack Islam. I particularly use it to illustrate the point made. So if you want to explain why and how Islam uses context for the verses, and then the Islamophobes denies all evidence presented, you can show how the same principle applies to the Bible to illustrate the point.

 

I am upset over that. I was once an Islamophobe. Though to be honest, yeah I was a complete dick when it came to that. And ignorant. And upset with one event which I thought represented Islam.

 

How hugely generalizing. Typical of liberals, They always say it's never okay to make generalizations then they always make huge generalizations about anybody who isn't a liberal. Not to mention highly judgmental of anybody else who isn't a liberal, just like in this post. Typical liberal tactics, and a textbook liberal case.

And yes, I have heard him be called an Islamophobe too.

You liberals suck.

You liberals are the most hateful and judgmental people around, and are no different than conservatives, you just hide it behind a lot of crap like you did there.

So far you aren't proving anything to me other than I am right about you.

 

Unfortunately I fostered the same thought for a while. Then I actually read something scholarly and got myself on track - ie in touch with reality. Its sad these Islamophobes cant actually make a consistent argument - if they did I might be interested in what they had to say.

 

Islamaphobes are just as pathetic as Isam apologist.

 

Which liberals? I'm not a liberal. Plus by saying 'typical of liberals' you just made another ignorant generalization. Anyway.

always?

I'm sure many liberals do, yes. Many - not all, and not 'always.'

How so? Also, how do you know I'm a liberal?

'textbook'? haha, do you ever get tired of your preaching. Its quite childish.

Which liberals? Yes you can call who ever an Islamophobes but you have to substantiate the charge - kind of like how you are calling me a liberal but have no idea what my political persuasion is.

LOL I think you will find you are far more liberal than me, and conservative. As for judgment and hate, perhaps you should check your own mindless drivel before accusing me of being something I am not. But whatever, even if you keep doing it it'll be good a for a laugh.

What do you mean? In what regard?

 

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Through your attacking me, you are the one who is making childish and ignorant generalizations. That is what all liberals do. You keep on with your ignorant bigotry.

In what regard? Everything you have said proves me right about you. You are a liberal.

You stop attacking me, and you stop generalizing me, and you stop your ignorant attacks.

You don't know anything about me, yet you've made all kinds of crap generalizations about me. That's what all liberals do.

But unlike you I will admit that I am extremely prejudiced against liberals. You people suck. Because all you do is tell people to shut up and attack them and make up all kinds of crap about them.

So (*)(*)(*)(*) off.

 

Can I just ask, by 'Islam apologists' what do you mean exactly? Its like the phrase 'Islam fundamentalist' - I understand the Christian derivative, but the Islamic one can be inaccurately placed.