Islamophobes are pathetic

Where did I attack you?

Like?

Which liberals?

Ok, Mr. Liberal. That's my name for you, for now on until you either justify your 'liberal' label for me or cease its use, Mr. Liberal.

Like what and in what way Mr. Liberal.

How so, Mr. Liberal?

What attacks, Mr. Liberal?

Like what, Mr. Liberal?

Which ones?

Yes, I cant say I'm extremely prejudices against liberals.

'You people suck'? hahaha! You sound like my 6 year old cousin!

I never told you to shut up, Mr. Liberal. I never attacked you as a person, Mr. Liberal. I never made up anything, Mr. Liberal. And I never 'talk crap' about people, Mr. Liberal.

hahaha quick someone call a wambulance!

 

Where have I berated or insulted you? Where have I shown bigotry or hate towards you?

 

If you continue to talk you are berating. If you point out his inconsistencies and fallacies, that's an insult. If you defend yourself against insults you're a bigot and if you refute his points this hatred.

 

Nonsense.

The wars mentioned in the Quran ans Hadith are specific battles which are over.

To bring up "Israel" further proves you are clueless, when they base their legitimacy and justify their crimes on the fact that thousands of years ago Jews lived there.

There are no open ended wars in Islam. Please, learn before posting. You can find almost every battle the Prophet Muhammad SAW fought. And there were defensive wars.

 

This is an attack and is a huge generalization, something you liberals are supposedly against, well, except for when you do it.

And calling me Mr Liberal is an attack as well, and if you keep on calling me that I will resort to calling you Mr (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). How does that suit you? Or maybe Mr. Twelve year old.

You are the one being childish.

Stop the childish attacks.

If you're such an adult, you wouldn't be doing this, period.

Morality, taking the high road, is not resorting to childish antics like everybody else. It's not what you say it's what you do.

So come on, prove how much better you are than I am.

You can't, because you're a liberal, and all liberals do is attack, insult and berate people for being different than them. That's all you people have.

 

How was it a generalization. I was referring to YOU. Was something I said wrong? You have done EXACTLY as a said you would. YOU have PROVED my point.

Ok Mr. Liberal. Just to let you know you started this by calling me a liberal without reason. So you reap what you sow mate. And if you have a problem with that MR. Liberal, all you have to do is stop calling me a liberal or justify why you call me such. Since you wont do either I wont change, ok Mr. Liberal.

Ok, Mr. Liberal.

Whatever you say, Mr. Liberal.

I dont find anything immoral about what I am doing, Mr. Liberal.

I already did, Mr. Liberal.

Ok, Mr. Liberal.

Coming from you that a most amusing comment Mr Liberal.

 

You don't know me and you only read that one post by me and said I must be this and this and this. The rest of what followed is called berating a person which is what you've been doing ever since.

I already have Mr Twelve year old, you denied it and are still attacking me, therefore you have proven my point. you are behaving exactly as a liberal, judge, insult, attack, and berate. This is what all liberals do, and it's the only thing they do. It's you who have proven my point, that all liberals are bigoted hateful people. You are behaving just like they do, so why should i separate you from them? It's not what you say, it's how you act, and you act just like they do. And all you've been doing is insulting me and berating me? Why? Because I dared called the liberal on their bigotry. This is typical liberal tactic, if they accuse, always insult, berate and attack. No matter what. I see no difference between you and them, and liberals always stick together because liberals can do no wrong under any circumstances.

You're not truly interested in being a grown-up either. You are a child.

You really should just shut up now, but of course you won't, liberals can never admit they're wrong when they've been shown to be wrong. And they will never apologize either.

It is you who reaps what you have sown. It is not I you should be attacking, if you are not a liberal, but you should be attacking liberal intolerance, if you are not a liberal.

But since you're a liberal, I'm sure you'll continue to attack and berate me.

 

You haven't shown me where I have berated or insulted you.

 

It doesn't matter if I would or didn't, you'd never admit to it anyways and come off with some lame excuse why it wasn't an attack or berating.

 

I honestly have no idea what I've said, if anything, that allows you to assume these things about me. I've openly asked you to support your claims that I've at all berated or insulted you. If those claims can't be supported, then I better understand your current reaction. However, if those claims can be supported, I'd certainly want to know so I could change my behavior or clarify my intent. Wouldn't you?

 

Sorry, but like I said, it wouldn't matter if I did or didn't. you would never admit to it anyway, and just deny or dismiss it out of hand using whatever lame excuse you can think of anyway, and continue to attack and insult and berate me. It's what all you liberals do.

You can conclude whatever you want to.

I don't much care anymore.

 

Well that was funny.

 

At least we learned from our mistakes.

 

Not in the same way, it simply doesn't. The Koran will make blanket statements about "fight in the way of Allah" while never mentioning in that same Surah exactly which fight is referred to, why they were fighting, and more importantly THAT THE BATTLE ENDED.

for example:

The Koran
[9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
[9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
[9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.
[9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
[9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.
[9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
[9.15] And remove the rage of their hearts; and Allah turns (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[9.16] What! do you think that you will be left alone while Allah has not yet known those of you who have struggled hard and have not taken any one as an adherent besides Allah and His Apostle and the believers; and Allah is aware of what you do.

Compare that to the Bible

1 Samuel 4 >>
Young's Literal Translation
1 And the word of Samuel is to all Israel, and Israel goeth out to meet the Philistines for battle, and they encamp by Eben-Ezer, and the Philistines have encamped in Aphek, 2 and the Philistines set themselves in array to meet Israel, and the battle spreadeth itself, and Israel is smitten before the Philistines, and they smite among the ranks in the field about four thousand men. 3 And the people cometh in unto the camp, and the elders of Israel say, 'Why hath Jehovah smitten us to-day before the Philistines? we take unto us from Shiloh the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, and it cometh into our midst, and He doth save us out of the hand of our enemies.' 4 And the people sendeth to Shiloh, and they take up thence the ark of the covenant of Jehovah of Hosts, inhabiting the cherubs, and there are two sons of Eli, with the ark of the covenant of God, Hophni and Phinehas.

5 And it cometh to pass, at the coming in of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah unto the camp, that all Israel shout -- a great shout -- and the earth is moved. 6 And the Philistines hear the noise of the shouting, and say, 'What is the noise of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews?' and they perceive that the ark of Jehovah hath come in unto the camp. 7 And the Philistines are afraid, for they said, 'God hath come in unto the camp;' and they say, 'Woe to us, for there hath not been like this heretofore. 8 Woe to us, who doth deliver us out of the hand of these honourable gods? these are the gods who are smiting the Egyptians with every plague in the wilderness. 9 Strengthen yourselves, and become men, O Philistines, lest ye do service to Hebrews, as they have done to you -- then ye have become men, and have fought.'

10 And the Philistines fight, and Israel is smitten, and they flee each to his tents, and the blow is very great, and there fall of Israel thirty thousand footmen; 11 and the ark of God hath been taken, and the two sons of Eli have died, Hophni and Phinehas.

12 And a man of Benjamin runneth out of the ranks, and cometh into Shiloh, on that day, and his long robes are rent, and earth on his head; 13 and he cometh in, and lo, Eli is sitting on the throne by the side of the way, watching, for his heart hath been trembling for the ark of God, and the man hath come in to declare it in the city, and all the city crieth out. 14 And Eli heareth the noise of the cry, and saith, 'What -- the noise of this tumult!' And the man hasted, and cometh in, and declareth to Eli. 15 And Eli is a son of ninety and eight years, and his eyes have stood, and he hath not been able to see. 16 And the man saith unto Eli, 'I am he who hath come out of the ranks, and I out of the ranks have fled to-day;' and he saith, 'What hath been the matter, my son?' 17 And he who is bearing tidings answereth and saith, 'Israel hath fled before the Philistines, and also a great slaughter hath been among the people, and also thy two sons have died -- Hophni and Phinehas -- and the ark of God hath been captured.' 18 And it cometh to pass, at his mentioning the ark of God, that he falleth from off the throne backward, by the side of the gate, and his neck is broken, and he dieth, for the man is old and heavy, and he hath judged Israel forty years.

19 And his daughter-in-law, wife of Phinehas, is pregnant, about to bear, and she heareth the report of the taking of the ark of God, that her father-in-law and her husband have died, and she boweth, and beareth, for her pains have turned upon her. 20 And at the time of her death, when the women who are standing by her say, 'Fear not, for a son thou hast borne,' she hath not answered, nor set her heart to it; 21 and she calleth the youth I-Chabod, saying, 'Honour hath removed from Israel,' because of the taking of the ark of God, and because of her father-in-law and her husband. 22 And she saith, 'Honour hath removed from Israel, for the ark of God hath been taken.'

Now notice that in the Bible, the battle is reported from beginning to end, the how, the why, the where. So anyone trying to figure out what God is saying has a context to work with. He knows exactly what is going on. He doesn't just read the exhortation to battle and say , "yep time for war" he has to look into the context.

And as for Israel -- These are the ancient israelites, even if you don't think that the modern Jew is Israelite, the people in the Bible were. Lets not start the racist rants OK?

 

You cannot compare the Bible and Quran. Your lack of understanding of what the Quran is showing now.

The Bible was written AFTER Jesus PBUH, after battles, etc.

The verses of the Quran involving wars were given to Muhammad PBUH as the battles happened. The Quran is a book of guidance, and back in Muhammads time the verses were given when the time was appropriate.

To understand the Quran, and Islam, you must known the historical context of time the verses were given.

There is nothing racist about it. Ashkenazi and Khazar Jews are not Israelites, they are European tribes who converted to Judaism a long time ago. They aren't even Semites. Lets not avoid a conversation with the anti-Semitic card, okay?

 

so are you liberal or progressive?

 

Why should that matter? Seems like another ad hominem on the way.

 

Actually the Qurna has context, especially since Muhammad instructed his followers to read the Quran with linguistic, theological and historical knowledge to get an accurate interpretation! In each verse the enemy is specifically described anyway - like 'hypocrites' for those who had only allied with the Muslims for exploitation, or 'polytheists' who were the Quraysh, a clan that did indeed endorse polytheistic practices. He only later refers to 'people of the book' because they are fighting the Byzantines.

You can, just as you said, do the same as the Bible, OR we can do as you thought above and take lines like 'kill all homosexuals, those that dont believe priests and those who disrespect parents (which would incidentally justify just about every honor killing conducted by backward Muslims)' or any other line that stands by itself. OR We can think logically - which is not restricted by any religion to such as the extent I describe, and say that logically, tolerance is preferable to both the religious and irreligious.

 

This is something needed to be brought up far too much... The belief that the Quran advocates killing of all non-Muslims of the world. When really, these are related to specific times and battles, not generally...

This is the same thinking as al-Qaida and other terror groups.

Ironic, isn't it, how Islamophobes and "Islamic" terrorists have the same view of Islam, yet the Islamophobes critisize the terrorists?

 

One of the greatest flaws of the Qu'ran is its ability to be interpreted differently by different people. The same goes for the Bible. It probably doesn't matter if Al Qaeda followed the Qu'ran, the Bible, the American constitution or Lord of the Rings, they have an agenda above that of Islam.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. And that agenda, as for all terrorists, is entirely political.

 

I find it interesting that all terrorists I can think of (with the possible exception of KKK) are nationalistic. Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, IRA, ETA, Lehi, Tamil Tigers, Tibetan terrorists, all are nationalistic, they fight for independence or similar goals. They are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu (there are others too, Tao, Confucian, but their names aren't that famous) but as soon as one of them shouts a Muslim prayer (I'd probably pray to whatever I believed in if I was going to blow myself up), Islam gets the boot.

Mark my words, I blame the Islamic terrorists just as much as any Islamophobe does, I just don't blame anyone else who happen to share the same faith, even less those of a different denomination of Islam.

 

Exactly. That's the difference between the sincere and those with a political agenda of their own.

 

Oh, the KKK was hyper nationalistic alright. They weren't fighting specifically for independence (However they sure wanted the South to be Independent, especially right after the Civil War) but they were dead set that America was a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant nation." So yeah, you can add them to the list.

Nationalism and religious fanaticism leads people to do crazy things.

Agreed.

 

The big question is, how do you tell those people apart? Those with a political agenda will use the exact same words to justify themselves that those with no political agenda, so it can make it really tough to tell the difference between the two, especially for those who don't care to or simply lack the capacity to do so.