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The Republicans gave it their best shot . . .

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Phoebe Bump, Nov 7, 2012.

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  1. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    I have no idea. Why don't you enlighten me as to how much of a "1 % er" you are?
     
    dudeman, Dec 21, 2012
    #251
  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    If you don't know how much tax I'm paying, what makes you think I need to be paying more than I am now?
     
    Meta777, Dec 21, 2012
    #252
  3. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    The simple fact that you are arguing that I should pay more taxes PROVES that you are NOT paying enough. Pay what you think you need to pay and then SHUT UP, Donald Trump's son. The USA is on the brink of complete societal collapse. Rich-**** intellectuals are not helping stability.
     
    dudeman, Dec 21, 2012
    #253
  4. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any (*)(*)(*)(*)ed sense.

    You already proved you don't know how much I'm paying in taxes,
    so I'm guessing you don't know how much money I or my family makes either,
    so why don't you SHUT UP, since its clear you know nothing about any of the things you're talking about?
     
    Meta777, Dec 21, 2012
    #254
  5. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    I wanted to make it clear that you saw no difference between income and principle when it came to taxation.
     
    Albert Di Salvo, Dec 21, 2012
    #255
  6. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

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    You didn't address anything in my post. Revenue is actually more relevant than spending, because our spending is line with historical spending while our revenue is much lower than it has been historically.
     
    .daniel, Dec 21, 2012
    #256
  7. FFbat

    FFbat New Member

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    because of interest, we need additional revenue and spending cuts... If they actually paid for everything they were spending money on for the last 50 years, we might have been alright... this thing is snowballing out of control and all we get is a smokescreen from congress before the curtain falls.
     
    FFbat, Dec 22, 2012
    #257
  8. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

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    Interest is included in the spending levels. Meaning that, despite the interest, we have mostly maintained stable spending levels as they have been historically. This means we have a revenue issue.
     
    .daniel, Dec 22, 2012
    #258
  9. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    Yeah, so what?
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #259
  10. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    taxing income by taking a % of it is a legal function of government. Confiscating wealth is not a legal function of government, After a person pays his taxes whatever he has left is his and the govt has no way to get it other than steal it.

    BTW, government revenue is the highest it has ever been, there is no revenue shortage. There is an overspending problem. We are borrowing 46 cents of every dollar that the govt spends. How long could you operate your personal finances that way?
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #260
  11. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    What????? Are you looney? We are not paying any principle of the debt, only the interest, and we are borrowing the money to pay the interest. If you cannot see the flaw in that, then you are in dire need of a Junior high economics course.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #261
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    So now, you understand why general infrastructure, science, and schools are all roles the federal government has taken up,
    even though these things are not explicitly spelled out within the constitution.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #262
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Explain. Last time I checked, property taxes were a legal function of government.
    State and local governments do it all the freaking time. You're saying they are stealing?

    The law is a bit unclear when it comes to the federal government's ability to do the same,
    of course, we can always change the law to make things more clearly spelled out.
    So putting legality aside, would you have any moral objections to any government,
    federal, state, or local, taxing any particular form of wealth, or do you know
    of any practical reasons why any level of government wouldn't be able to?
    And again, I feel I have to constantly point out that I am in no way suggesting
    that we do any of these things. Just so you don't get confused.

    Also, I take it then that you don't consider income taxes stealing?

    Revenue and general productivity both typically increase with population growth, as they should, didn't you know that?
    If it remained constant, we would be using the same amount of money to support an ever increasing number of people.
    Revenue and spending as a percentage of GDP are the numbers you really want to be looking at in order to control
    for both increased productivity and need for more spending due to population growth.

    [​IMG]

    Lets try to get them both back close to where they were between 97 and 02.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #263
  14. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    thanks for making my point, yes, the govt has taken on those unconstitutional activities.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #264
  15. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    Meta

    you keep missing the point. yes, taxing is a legal function of all governments. But you and some others are suggesting that governments take money from people who have already paid the taxes on that money---i.e. "taxing" wealth.

    as to your chart, its quite obvious that the spending line has gone almost vertical in obama's first 4 years. thats the problem. and the result of that unconscionable spending is a loss of revenue---overspending by govt is a double edged sword.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #265
  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Unconstitutional? Where does the constitution say that the government can't build infrastructure, educate the citizens, and or turn paper into legal tender?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #266
  17. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    the constitution spells out what the federal government can do. Everything else is left to the states. Too bad no one in DC has read the document for the last 100 years.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #267
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    You're dodging the questions.

    ...Wha..What kind of political hackery?... O_O
    You do realize that that spending line peaks in late 2009 don't you?
    It starts around 2003 and accelerates between 2007-2009.
    It's been going down under Obama ever since then,
    perhaps you can see it more clearly on this chart:

    [​IMG]

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #268
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    So you don't think the federal government is allowed to create legal tender?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #269
  20. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    the red line goes almost straight up beginning in 2008, yes, it has trended down in the last year, mainly because spending in Iraq has been reduced.

    You are the one dodging the questions so let me ask again:

    Since we are now borrowing 46 cents of every dollar the federal govt spends, how will taking another 5% from the top 2% fix that?

    The national debt is going up every second of every day. There are not enough rich people in the country to cover deficit spending.

    BTW, 250K is not rich.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #270
  21. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    they obviously have done that, so whats the purpose of the question? But since you want to talk about money, where in the constitution is the federal reserve established?
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #271
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I will answer the question, 'how will taxing the top 2% an additional 5% fix the deficit?'
    after you answer the questions I asked you.



    Explain why you feel that governments should not tax wealth.
    Last time I checked, property taxes were a completely legal thing for governments to tax, and property is itself a type of wealth, is it not?
    Again, state and local governments tax property all the time. Are you saying they are stealing when they do this?

    And again, the law is not clear when it comes to the federal government's authority to do this,
    but again, we have the ability to change our laws to make them more clear as to how we want to operate.
    So putting legality aside, would you have any moral objections to any government,
    federal, state, or local, taxing any particular form of wealth, or do you know
    of any practical reasons why any level of government wouldn't be able to?
    And again, I am not suggesting we do this, just asking why it is
    you are against it.

    And lastly, yes or no, am I correct in assuming that you do not consider income taxes as stealing?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #272
  23. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    You shoot your own self in the foot with such statements.

    Are you suggesting that by definition, anything the government does, is automatically something the government is allowed to do?

    Same place the government's authority to create legal tender out of banknotes is established.
    Oh and BTW, I call Red Herring on that one.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Dec 22, 2012
    #273
  24. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    I do not consider income taxes as stealing. But when the govt wastes my money I consider it crime. Local property taxes are needed to fund local schools, police, fire protection etc. The federal govt does not have the right to collect property taxes.

    If the govt is allowed to tax wealth, the next step will be government ownership of all property, its a slippery slope and you seem anxious to start down it.

    and yes, you are correct, adding 5% to the taxes of the rich WILL fix the deficit and the debt-----in 400 years if nothing else changes.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #274
  25. ragin cajun

    ragin cajun New Member

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    What is the point you are trying to make on legal tender? If I say the govt has that right does that mean I think the govt has the right to confiscate wealth from citizens. its apples and oranges. I call dead mackeral on that one.
     
    ragin cajun, Dec 22, 2012
    #275
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