My Ideal Royal Navy.

6 QE class CATOBAR aircraft carriers £24 billion
2 Ocean class helicopter carriers £1.2 billion
2 40,000 ton amphibious assault ships £3 billion
2 Albion class landing platform docks £500 million
18 Daring class anti air warfare destroyers £21.6 billion
2 Daring class land attack destroyers £2.6 billion
20 Type 26 frigates £8 billion
20 Fast 3,500 ton anti-piracy and anti-drug corvettes £5 billion
15 New class of mine hunters £2.25 billion
4 Ballistic missile submarines £20 billion
16 Astute class attack submarines £20 billion
10 River class large off-shore patrol boats £350 million
24 New class of small off-shore patrol boats £250 million
3 Icebreaker patrol boats £450 million
2 Wave class replenishment ships £180 million
16 Tide class fast replenishment ships £1.8 billion
2 New class of hospital ships £500 million
3 New class of forward repair ships £300 million
3 Bay class dock landing ships £381 million
6 Point class sealift ships £1 billion

This is based on the UK having a much better economic and having a defence budget of £85 billion.

 

That would be a credible and formidable navy.

 

Yeah, but you would find it very hard to get the crew numbers needed to operate the ships, even if you had enough money to built a fleet that big. I wouldn't call the fleet formidable, but what the Royal Navy needs to fulfill it's current requirements.

 

What are those requirements?

What would this navy be doing that needs to be done- that the current navy isn't doing?

 

Well the main 3 requirements are defend and protect UK waters, defend and protect the British overseas territories and protect world trade. If I was going to sum it up, it would be defend British interests anywhere in the world.

The current RN has no aircraft carriers and amphibious assault ships, it has no purpose built hospital ship and no purpose built anti-piracy and anti-drug ships. So currently we are finding it very hard to do anti-drug operations in the Caribbean and anti-piracy operations off the Horn of Africa. We have to defend territory in the Pacific, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, Caribbean and the western part of the North Atlantic. Add to that we take part in NATO operations like Afghanistan and join with the US warn off Iran. The RN is so streached that it is having to use Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships to do the job of frigates and off-shore patrol ships.

 

That is a rather vague concept for an expensive plan.

For instance- the UK has no carriers right now- you recommend 6.

What actions in the last 10 years would have warrented having 6 carriers?

I really have no dog in this race, I just am curious as to what the need is that you see.

 

No I recommend 3-4 carriers, but to have 3-4 carriers operational all the time you need atleast 6. The UK had 4 Centaur class carriers and HMS Eagle, then the 3 Invincible class carriers.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, anti-piracy operations, warning off Iran and defending the British overseas territories.

 

I think the peoples of the UK would prefer a big helping of ice cream instead of a fleet.

 

Now very few people like ice cream as much as me, but even I would rather have the fleet. LOL.

 

How do you plan to work this off?

 

How exactly do anti-piracy operations warrant full size CATOBAR carriers? Hell, even an oil tanker modified to carry Tucano-type prop fighters would be overkill to battle pirates.

And why exactly are CATOBAR carriers necessary in the case of Iran, Libya, or Iraq where convenient nereby basing for land aircraft is available?

 

Congratulations. You can afforrd to have you fancy fleet. Of course, you won't be able to afford any crews, ordinance, aircraft for the carriers, an Army, or an Air Force.

 

You forgot the new infrastructure needed to house the fleet. The crews are a problem, but it's not so much affording them as it is recruiting enough people to service on the ships. Yeah aircraft would be really costly, a very rough guess would be about £40 billion. It would take 12 years of £13 billion a year being spend to procure everything for the fleet.

 

Carriers are used for anti-piracy operations. I would use it for command and control, if one of the Ocean class or Albion class ships couldn't be used for whatever reason. Why does the US have carriers near Iran, why did the French use their carrier for operations against Gaddafi forces in Libya and why did the task force for the invasion of Iraq include carriers?

 

Get a job at KFC for the next 7,084,000 years.

 

The US needs carriers for other reasons and so had them available to use.

Britain doesn't need 6 carriers. One to two at sea at a time would be more than enough for its purposes.

And talk about overkill, carriers as anti-piracy C4I ships? Seriously? A Frigate with a beafed up sensor suite and comms system would do the exact smae job at a fraction of the cost.

If you want something to tangle with pirates and utterly dominate, convert an oil tanker into a mobile seabase. Knock down the superstructure and build a smaller one to the side, put in a simple reinforced flight deck with a couple of simple elevators. Give it a complement of transport helicopters and light CAS/COIN aircraft (like the Super Tucano or Pucara) and the ability to carry and service a handful of light attack boats with some Marines on board (something along the lines of the Mark V used by the SEALs). Added points if the Seabase can also support a couple of maritime patrol seaplanes. Put a small detention facility and hospital on board with a complement of MP's to guard to detainees.

You would be able to utterly dominate any pirate operation within 600 miles at a miniscule fraction of the cost of a real carrier.

 

What other reasons does the US need it's carriers for?

As I said the UK only needs 3-4 carriers, but to operate 3-4 all the time you need atleast 6.

The UK will be operating both Queen Elizabeth class carrier at the same time once they become operational, that tells me they really need to operate 3 carriers at any given time not to over work the carriers and their crews, so 6 carriers.

I know a frigate could do the job or the Albion class or Ocean class protected by 2 frigates, than you have 5-6 of the fast UAV Corvettes to deploy the light attack boats and Royal Marines. If the Albion class or Ocean class wasn't avalible for whatever reason, a carrier would do that job or one of the amphibious assault ships.

 

One carrier, perhaps, could be enough since it's not the carrier you really use to fight the pirates but the jets with lock-on missiles that might do the job. That's only speculation, though... I'm not sure if missiles would be any good against the small, mobile ships pirates like to use. I mean, seriously, there nothing more than power boats sometimes, and they generally stay away from any naval whatever and wait until a civilian ship comes along. Something like a carrier or anything obviously military will not go unnoticed.

 

and how much for a service fleet ???

 

I thought the service ships were private commission, or merchant mariners?

 

private co's that could go on strike??? no

 

LOL. Didn't think of that. Makes me laugh imagining it happening.

 

2 Wave class replenishment ships £180 million
16 Tide class fast replenishment ships £1.8 billion
2 New class of hospital ships £500 million
3 New class of forward repair ships £300 million
3 Bay class dock landing ships £381 million
6 Point class sealift ships £1 billion

 

an ongoing and contiuous expense. can th UK sustain it???

 

Currently no the UK couldn't afford it, but if the UK had a budget of £85 billion a year it could afford it.