I still don't know why you think a person with a 3D printer will ruin 3D printing. There are something called 80% receivers that you can buy without a background check and have them shipped to your house. If you have a drill press, you can finish the last 20% of the receiver and "build a gun". There is no functional difference between this 80% receiver and 3D printing when making a receiver. It is already LEGAL. You haven't seen a massive restriction on a drill press, or a mill... have you?
If this was being used to mass produce dildos there would be no such conflicts, but since guns are the topic the sky will surely fall...
I never said my experience was definitive evidence, just something that maybe someone with little experience around guns might want to consider. That study very conveniently leaves out how many of the children who were shot are in a gang that routinely participates in shootouts with rival gangs. I'm sure that might multiply the number by 2-4. Here's some more anecdotal stuff for you. I wonder if there is any mention of children shooting themselves 200-300 years ago in the history books. With your theory that kids+guns=death, and knowing that every house back then had guns, surely we would be able to find records of large amounts of adolescents killing themselves off in droves. I doubt that exists in any history books though. I'm willing to put my speculation of this up against your study to see if kids+guns=death/accidental shootings.
These little pieces of data kind of ruin your hypothesis. Out of 3,385 gun deaths and injuries for people 0-19 years of age. What this says is that 90% of these deaths and injuries were intentional. Out of the homicides, how many were gang members? America has a problem with inner-city gangs and specifically poverty among minorities. This leads to gang violence. I would like to see some data on how many of these homicides were committed with legally acquired firearms or as a result of gang violence. As for the suicides, it's tragic that a young person would chose to go that route. Again, the gun is not to blame though. The blame goes on why that child decided to commit suicide, whether it be bad parenting or a hostile school environment. Either way, they could just as easily hang themselves or overdose on drugs. You are trying to place the blame solely on one factor; guns. There are many other factors which need to be accounted for. Quite frankly, your data sucks and does not support your hypothesis.
relegating it to "gang members" is not an analysis it is a rationalisation for dismissing a real problem. It is also demeaning by saying "Oh! Well! They are not us so it is OK for them to be killed" If this were motor vehicle deaths would you be dismissing this as "Oh! They are only hoons speeding - no reason to stop ME from speeding!" NOT ACCEPTABLE They are still children Are you also aware that http://www.ojjdp.gov/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html Just because they have been conscripted to a gang does not mean it is OK for them to die
There seems to be a miscommunication somewhere. We are not saying that it is OK or acceptable to have kids offing each other. What we are saying is that despite societies best efforts, these kids are offing each other and they represent a significant proportion of gun violence. This is in spite of massive sweeping gun laws, confiscations, outright bans, and other implementations of different types of gun control. We are saying that things like this don't work in the United States for whatever reason and that there must be some other angle that we can attack this problem instead of saying "ban all guns now!" From the many posts that I have read that you have written, your position seems to be availability control, right? Our position is not availability control but behavior control. If the root behavior that causes homicides to happen as frequently as they do, then the availability of guns wouldn't matter. Education, family support and values, and social networking goes a lot further than taking the weapons away from criminals. The criminals will continue to do bad things with other items and that doesn't solve the root problem, just one symptom. You keep touting that UK and Australia have reduced gun crime after wide sweeping bans, yet several other posters have said that overall crime has gone up. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? If your position is "I don't care if I die, as long as it is not by a gun," then your position doesn't lend a whole lot of credibility. If your position is "I want to reduce overall crime," then banning a weapon is only treating the cause of a much larger disease which is usually a criminal element that should be cut out of a society like a cancer as best as it can.
You missed my point. I never said it was ok for them to die because they were gang members. My point was that guns are not the reason why these adolescents choose to kill themselves and each other. That would be like blaming airplanes for 9/11, or cars for DUI accidents. The tool used to committ the act is not the root problem. It is the user. Also, gangs may be more likely to recruit an adolescent who already has a gun but guess what? It's illegal for anyone under 18 to buy a rifle and under 21 to buy a handgun. That means the gun was still acquired illegally and does nothing to prove your point. Try again. The problem is still the gangs, not the guns.
Did you not see the graph - if the problem is not the guns then why are so many deaths attributed to them? Wherever you have a high enough population density coupled with poverty, no matter where you are in the world you will have gangs' What you do not necessarily have is that same death rate
Defeatism - sheer sodding defeatism and yes there is a miscommunication because I for one am not calling for a gun ban - in fact few are But conversely many actually WANT some form of tighter regulation I know one reason why our crime rate went up and it had nothing to do with guns They made spitting on a cop a serious offence - and our murder rate did not go up - in fact there has been a slow downward trend. Admittedly many forms of affray have risen but which would you rather - punched in the face or shot in the face?
The graph is cute, but it is also really outdated. Simply put, if you take away guns they will simply find other implements to do harm. Don't know why you can't see this. Check out UK's knife problem - they have tight wad restriction on guns, and they have gobs of violent crime. It is a correlation that shouldn't be ignored. May as well make the solution affordable.
You know, I can say the same thing about DUI deaths. If so many deaths are attributed to DUI accidents, are cars the problem? No, of course not. It's stupid people making stupid decisions to drink and drive. Obviously this doesn't mean cars should be regulated more, it means we need harsher penalties and stricter enforcement of current laws, as well as awareness and outreach programs. Same thing goes for gangs. Stupid people making stupid decisions to join a gang because they have nothing better to do with their lives living in poverty. If we took away the guns, they would use knives. Do you know how many people are killed every year in American prisons? An absolute gun free zone? http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/shsplj.pdf This is only slightly lower than the U.S. murder rate of 4.8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States So tell me, how are these gang members killing each other without guns or knives? They improvise. They use any means at their disposal to kill one another. If you could magically remove all guns from the streets, the gangs would kill each other with knives. Then with baseball bats, etc, etc. the cycle will continue till you solve the real problem; the gangs. Sorry, gun availability does not equal higher murder rates. Many people like yourself are quick to point the blame at something that is easy to demonize. They are too lazy to look at and fix the deeper problems with society. Guns do not cause violence or murders, they are only one tool of many that can enable such acts. In order to fix the real problems with our society, we have to address the route problems. Band-aid fixes like tighter regulation of guns and banning of certain kinds of guns will not change anything.
Is the UK death rate from knives anywhere and I mean ANYWHERE near the USA death rate for guns?? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/datablog/2012/apr/12/london-knife-crimeAnd this is stabbings - serious but not necessarily fatal and here are more stats
So,,,, that is different from wanting stricter laws surrounding guns - how? And the CDC does have a strategy to continually mitigate the MVA toll http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/ so where is the firearm injury reduction strategies? BWA HA! This is the equivalent of saying "young lambs die because look at how many that are put in cages with lions fail to make it back out again Why are you throwing your hands up in defeat? Says more about the poor state of your prisons than about gun control Then why is it not the same elsewhere in the world? Why do not other countries have the same murder rate as the USA? Meantime back in the world where apples are compared to apples and not to carrots we have Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review). Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide. Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/ Overall, the data provided by the 26 countries included a total of 2872 deaths among children aged less than 15 years for a period of 1 year. Homicides accounted for 1995 deaths, including 1177 (59%) in boys and 818 (41%) in girls. Of the homicides, 1464 (73%) occurred among U.S. children. The homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51) (Table_1). http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm DISCUSSION The present study examines the relationship between firearm availability and violent death among children within the United States. We found that each of our four proxies leads to the same conclusion: children 5–14 years old were more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries, sui- cides and homicides if they lived in states (or regions) with more rather than fewer guns. In contrast, nonfirearm homi- cides and nonfirearm suicides were not significantly associ- ated with the availability of guns. http://www.seesac.org/sasp2/english/publications/1/Children_Youth/1.pdf Do you want me to go on?? There is plenty of data proving that more guns = more deaths
Nice try at twisting my argument. I said DUIs, not motor vehicle accidents in general. And your analogy is flawed. http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/shsplj.pdf More like lions killing lions. We've taken the gang member away from the guns (by putting them in prison) and they still manage to kill each other. Shocking. Try again. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how in the world this could be possible. The point you're failing to grasp is that gang members will continue to kill each other, as long as they are in a gang. Remove the gangs and you remove most murders (gun or otherwise).
Give me one example of a first world country that has the same inner-city violence problems that the U.S. has. Also, there are plenty of countries that have a higher murder rate than the U.S. Hell, take your pick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate And again, that study does not take into account how many homicides are gang related. Comparing the U.S. to other countries without factoring in the gang violence is not comparing apples to apples. Sorry, keep trying.
The USA is a "first world" country? Just where did you get this idea? When young adults cannot afford to leave their parent's house and start their own life, when the streets are filling up with homeless, I would hardly call that first world.
Yes, there are plenty of countries with a higher murder rate but most of THEM are declared war zones!! Sorry but most countries with large inner city populations have gangs - they do not have the same level of gun violence as the USA http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0126_gang_homicides.html http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...0/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2010-Chapter-05-EN.pdf http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...0/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2010-Chapter-05-EN.pdf
It has more violent crime, but fewer fatalities. Are you saying we should accept a higher amount of nonlethal violent crime? Not even factoring in the amount of rape, and gang rape that goes on there it is still much higher. Is melee violence is more acceptable to you? That is just silly. Listen, I'd enjoy a debate with you, but I've seen how you operate in the past. I know an exercise in futility when I see one.
non-lethal versus letha..........dead versus not deadl................. errr YES!!!! But bottom line - unless you are comparing homicide rates (and even they are not truly reflective) it is a fools game to compare crime statistics from country to country because of the differing legislation (as I have said before spit on a police officer here and you are charged with a serious assault) differing police attitude to prosecution (witness the recent rape case in India and the controversy that has stirred about the - until now culturally accepted failure to prosecute rape) prosecution and police culture also play a part The NRA as the advertising arm of the gun manufacturers has done a wonderful job of of twisting statistics
errr non-lethal verses lethal ummm how many supposed non lethal items do you suppose cause death in the hands of someone intent on creating death...bet it surpasses lethal. Never mind responding though, I've seen your postings as well. No amount of proof will stop you from your rant. Basically though I really don't care what you think because...1 you don't have a say and 2 Americans are speaking and the politically weak from your side demonstrate daily their inability to stand for what they believe. Hence all the failures
Buddy's younger brother just started making billet lowers. Doing some real nice work. I commend him. For years we all figured he was going to do nothing with his life.
Cute. You gave one exception (Manchester). How does that old saying go? Something like the exception proves the rule...? And this little spiel: Is clearly referring to countries such as Mexico. Gangs in the U.S. don't possess "significant arsenals." They almost exclusively use handguns because over 72% of all firearm murders are committed with them. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 You also left out these little gems of information: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...0/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2010-Chapter-05-EN.pdf I rest my case. Solve the gang problems in America and you come very close to solving the gun violence problem. I'm still waiting for your explanation of how gang members kill each other in a weapon free zone (prison). Don't worry, take your time. - - - Updated - - - Cute. You gave one exception (Manchester). How does that old saying go? Something like the exception proves the rule...? And this little spiel: Is clearly referring to countries such as Mexico. Gangs in the U.S. don't possess "significant arsenals." They almost exclusively use handguns because over 72% of all firearm murders are committed with them. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8 You also left out these little gems of information: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...0/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2010-Chapter-05-EN.pdf I rest my case. Solve the gang problems in America and you come very close to solving the gun violence problem. I'm still waiting for you explanation of how gang members kill each other in a weapon free zone (prison). Don't worry, take your time.
