North Carolina Repubs want to create a "state religion"

http://www.wral.com/proposal-would-allow-state-religion-in-north-carolina/12296876/


Mind you these are the same guys who "defend the 2nd Amendment from vicious liberal attacks"....but think the 1st can be bent,folded, stapled, and mutilated if the Religious Right want it to be.

 

I thought they pledged to protect Constitution... Did they even read it?

 

Did the Federal Gov't do away with the states religions', when the Constitution became the law of the land?

 

Patriot Act, TSA, Indefinite detention and Torture. Neither party gives a flying (*)(*)(*)(*) about the Constitution.

 

Gotta love it. The constitution is definitive if you agree with it, and irrelevant if you don't. The Republican double standard is AT LEAST the equal of the Democratic double standard.

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Gotta love it. The constitution is definitive if you agree with it, and irrelevant if you don't. The Republican double standard is AT LEAST the equal of the Democratic double standard.

 

Last I checked, the 1st & 2nd amendments explicitly state "Congress shall not....".

Where does it say, "States shall not..."?

You cannot substitute state for congress.

And no, this does not mean I am defending North Carolina to do this, just stating the fact that those 2 amendments strictly and very pointed, speak of Congress infringements.

 

Let's read it together:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Why does this first amendment specify Congress as the body that shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion?? Isn't banning prayer in state run schools prohibiting the free exercise thereof;??

I don't see anything about States not making laws respecting an establishment of religion. Do you?? In Article V the Constitution talks about the States rights and obligations in all four sections but not in A.I. That is because some states already had state religions established. But even those states didn't want Congress to establish a federal religion.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Can you find, in your copy of the Constitution, where the establishment of a State religion is prohibited by the Constitution??

 

Anything to stir up the hornets nest so they can continue to loot the til.

What religion are they going to force everyone to recognize?

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So what religion will be forced on everybody?

 

Not surprised. Its no secret right wing extremists hate the constitution and secular government.

 

Never happen....Next whine?

 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this. The Bill of Rights was originally a restriction on the powers of the federal government; it wasn't understood as applying to the states. That incorporation comes later as the result of court rulings. So North Carolina is basically seeking to return this to its original purpose.

Will the GOP in North Carolina succeed in establishing a state religion? I'm admittedly skeptical, but if the GOP can succeed in making Michigan a 'right to work' state, I'm not so sure they won't succeed at this, too. And if they succeed, it will be exported to other states. Michigan has a Republican house, senate, governor, and court. So I can see them bringing it here as well.

Non-Christians be afraid - be very afraid.

 

Its already been decided no state may create any state religion. The 1st amendment has been interpreted this way. More unconstitutional nonsense by the party of hate and ignorance.

 

Which doesn't contradict anything I said in my post. Court rulings are not carved in stone. The wording of the proposed North Carolina law nullifies the application of those rulings to that state.This isn't just a test of those rulings, but of a state's power to refuse the federal government and its courts.

Consider: If they pass the law and someone brings suit, what happens if the case makes it to the Supreme Court and it rules against North Carolina? The Court has no power of enforcement; only the power to interpret the law. So then we presumably get into an arm-wrestling match between Congress and the executive branch on the enforcement issue. Can the executive act unilaterally to enforce the Court's rulings? Suppose that Congress uses the "power of the purse" to defund that operation.

There's a lot to think about here.

 

Another example of the extreme RW trying to force religion into govt. Another reason not to trust them, what a ridiculous motion on their part. From gay marriage, abortion, to religion, it is all they are willing to legislate.

 

Well first off there is NO right to federal nullification, none at all. Second if they do go ahead with this against the court rulings (and no the SCOTUS would not side with NC) not only will every NC state legislature be in violation of the law they would be advocating insurrection forcing the federal government to act by force if needed. And I highly doubt the majority of people in NC want religion forced on them.

 

Amendment 14 extends most of protections of the Constitution to the State.

If this bill gets passed and NC attempts to enforce it by say using tax money to support it's preferred church's, it will be challenged and the law will be overturned by the SCOTUS. This is already settled law, all that NC will achieve is to burden it's taxpayer's will huge legal costs.

 

You assume the federal government will be in agreement on taking action, ignoring the remainder of my post.

Look at this another way - do the majority of North Carolinians identify as Christian? Could they not persuaded to establish Christianity as the state religion in that case? If the majority are Christian, establishing Christianity as the state's religion probably won't be viewed by them as forcing religion upon them.

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So what? The Court has no power of enforcement.

 

Doesn't matter, just because people identify as christian does not mean they want their life ruled by it. So whats next after creating a state theocracy? Laws banning freedoms and rights that are dubbed "non-christian"? You think too much of this, they will be slapped back to reality and that will be the end of it. States DO NOT have authority over the federal government, never have and never will. This entire notion of "state sovereignty" is laughable at best.

 

Also, just b/c they claim Christianity as the state religion, doesn't mean they force everyone to believe in Christianity.

 

You're arguing about this in the abstract. What would a majority of North Carolinian voters decide, if given the opportunity to put it to a vote? I'm not persuaded that they wouldn't be in favor of it. I'm not persuaded that those with objections would be successful in overturning the actions of the legislature and governor establishing Christianity as the state's religion.

You betcha!

I said I was skeptical of it succeeding. That doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't debate the possibilities if the bill does get passed and signed into law.

And we just have to take your word for it? No.

The federal government doesn't rule the states; they each have their share of power, based on the items under their jurisdiction.

Maybe true when you look at what the relationship between federal and state goverments has become. Not so much when you examine the full history.

 

What do you think a state religion is? Forced religion.

 

Maybe they won't be forced to worship a Christian God, but certainly the intent is to conform the laws to Christian beliefs. It should be obvious that government doesn't have the magic power of making people believe as Christians do. But it's power to restrict their lives through laws that reflect Christian beliefs is no small thing.

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It may or may not be. The more likely outcome is making laws conform to Christian beliefs (outlawing abortion, criminalizing homosexual behavior, etc.)

 

I suspect that this theory that the US Constitution doesn't actually apply to the individual States, isn't going to hold much credibility. Granted, we have always had a de facto State Religion, so taken for granted that when people sue for religious equality, Christians scream persecution. But making it legally official is going to be laughed out of court. If North Carolina insists anyway, they will face very unpopular loss of Federal funds.

 

Outlawing abortion is not allowed, criminalizing gays is not allowed as well as creating any laws based around religion. If NC did indeed do all of this regardless of court rulings you can be sure the federal government will occupy NC with federal troops. And I would support it 100%.

 

Initially, this is probably the case. Soon enough, there will be a religious test to run for public office, and a religious test to hold government jobs such as schoolteacher. After that, there will be religious tests of companies seeking government contracts for everything from lawn mowing to road building to IT services. This isn't fantasy, this is how theocracies work worldwide.