Is it Envious or from Jealousy to ask the Rich to pay more taxes?

And they do this because they make the majority of the income, otherwise, they wouldn't be paying the highest percentage of income taxes. So, it's no surprise, that the tiny percentage of wealthy people make the majority of the income and pay the majority of the income taxes.

That's like being surprised if you saw a headline that said "Race car drivers predominant group involved in race car accidents".

 

I am not advocating for anything. I'm just saying your attitude of let the rich do as they will and rest can eat cake has never turned out good for the establishment. And I don't give a sh!t that the poorest in America are better off than the poor elsewhere. The fact remains that minimum wage must needs to be above $14/hr in order to avoid the poverty line, and as long as any CEO knowingly pays less than that to his full time employees he/she is guilty of exploiting their own countrymen and should be legally punished for it along the lines of treason and unfair labor practices.

 

Alright, I understand your position more clearly now.

Allow me to counter your position.

I agree that historically that when the wealthy have turned their back on the needs of the poor, the poor have revolted and the result was not very positive for the rich, however I would like to point out that the comparison you are making is not entirely accurate. In fact, it is not accurate at all. Take, for example, one of the more famous revolutions, the very revolution from which the "let them eat cake" reference comes from. Do you honestly believe that the majority of the poor in America are in the same position that the poor people involved in the French Revolution were in? They were not. The majority of the poor in America have a home, food, clothing, in fact many of them have, what the poor of the French Revolution would consider INCREDIBLE LUXURIES! In addition to the shelter, food, and clothing, they have televisions, cell phones, and microwaves. Do they live in luxury homes, eat gourmet food, wear designer clothes, have seventy inch televisions, and iPhones? Probably not, but just because rich people have them does mean that poor people are entitled to them either.

Please specifically explain why you consider it a crime to pay someone who picks up a broom and sweeps a floor more than $14 an hour. In addition, please specifically explain why you believe someone who hires someone to sweep a floor for $14 an hour is guilty of exploiting that person. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to run a successful business? When I ask you those questions, please understand, I am not insulting you or attempting to belittle you in any way. I sincerely mean that. I am simply trying to explain that nothing is perfect, and in an attempt to make things "fair", often times people make something else "unfair". If starting a business or running a business is generally very difficult, and generally speaking, it is, why shouldn't those who do it successfully be rewarded? Why are they "exploiting their own countrymen", as you put it? If it is so easy to be a CEO, or start a business, why doesn't everyone do it?

My great grandparents came over from Italy, and they, along with my grandparents, lived BELOW the poverty line. They worked hard, received absolutely no assistance from anyone, and my father lived significantly better than they did. Ironically, my parents gave me absolutely nothing. In fact, my mother was a drug addict, smoked two packs of cigarettes a day, and died at forty nine, leaving my brother and I to care for our pre-teen half brother and half sister. My father re-married, and disappeared. I graduated high school, and went to college, but only lasted a year and half, so I have no degree. I took a civil service test, and in November of this year, I will have been a police officer for twenty years. I got married, had a son, and my wife cheated on me. I wanted to work things out, but she wanted a divorce. I now pay her $1400 a month CASH, TAX FREE. So, while I make a six figure salary, because I live in NY, on Long Island, where the cost of living and taxes are extremely high and because I have to pay my wife considerably more money than she actually spends to take care of my son, I have no savings except for my 401K, and I live check to check, often with nothing but $20 in my pocket until my next paycheck. Could, once I am eligible to retire, I move to a part of the country where my pension will allow me to live better? Yes, I could, but I choose not to because I do not wish to leave my son.

My point? In my opinion, and I honestly believe that most reasonable people would agree, life has been EXTREMELY UNFAIR to me. But I pay my taxes. I pay my child support. I do not expect anyone to assist me. I do not, for ONE SECOND, look at someone who is fortunate enough to have a wife who didn't cheat on him, to have a higher paying job than I do and NOT have to put his life on the line every day when he goes to work, whether or not he earned that higher paying job or it was given to him, and begrudge that person. I thank God every night that I have a roof over my head, that I live in a country where I am relatively safe, and that my son is happy and healthy. I am not suggesting that I am a "better person" than anyone else. Nor am I suggesting that, based on my opinion, my experiences and the choices that I voluntarily make, that my position is a "fact" or that I am, by default "right". I am simply saying that these are my beliefs, and in MY HEART, I believe them to be right. All I ask of anyone is that they respect my right to this opinion and these beliefs, and I will do the same.

Life is not always fair, but that does not entitle anyone to FORCIBLY take something from one person, and give it to someone. At least, not in my eyes.

 

If you don't have a dependable car, you don't have money for heat, you don't have money for medical care, you don't have money for decent cloths for your kids to wear to school, you don't have money to go out to dinner and a movie once a month, its not luxury that you are lacking or caviar you are dreaming of. And yes, poverty is much worse elswhere but that dosn't make it right for some people in our society to have so little, compared to some who have so unimaginably much. That is if you consider this country a society at all. Or is it just survival of the fittest. Screw the poor. Isn't that what Jesus said?

 

So someone comes from a rich family and has so unimaginably much, and he chooses not to help a complete stranger that he has never met before. You think that is so unfair that you have the right to forcibly take what is rightfully his, and give it to some one else? You are entitled to that opinion, but I could not disagree with you more. I think what you are advocating is utterly wrong.

Jesus teaches us to help others. But Jesus isn't the federal government, and He won't put you in jail or seize what is rightfully yours and give it to someone else either. Why don't you let Jesus do the judging rather using His name to cast judgement on others.

 

I guess you are correct but something is telling me that it's not a good system. When the middle class sees that the wealthy have flying cars they are not going to be satisfied with a broken down ford.

 

Where does it say that in life everyone is entitled to be satisfied with what they have, and if they are not satisfied with what they have, they can forcibly take from those who have what they want?

 

Actually I didn't say any of that stuff. As for why I don't I let Jesus do the judging... Because I don't choose to... umm, also because he's dead.

 

I don't know where "it" says that. Did I say that "it" said that? No, I just made a statement. Are Gnomes usually so excitable, vicious, and obsessed with taking things by force?

 

I love America just fine Sir. I despise the corporate sellouts and greedy fat cats that run it though. They F'd it up for everybody. DUH!

 

Fair enough. What exactly are you saying then?

In regard to Jesus, you are certainly entitled to choose not to. You believe He is dead, but I do not. I believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and is our Lord and Savior. Should you choose to mock me for that belief, that is likewise your right to do, however I would kindly request that you respect my right to hold religious beliefs, as I respect your right to believe whatever you wish. I would also like to point out, that your use of Jesus in such a disrespectful manner is, in my opinion, rude to those of us who believe in Christianity. You are certainly free to disagree with my assertion that it is rude, or you may agree that it is rude, but not respect my request, and continue to be rude, all at your discretion. I would prefer, however, that we leave Jesus out of this debate, unless you use His name to raise a point rather than as a tool of mockery.

Back to the point at hand, and again I ask you, what exactly are you saying then?

 

I am very pleased that you love America, as so do I, and perhaps through civil discussion, and utilizing an open mind, we can make America an even better place for everyone!

That being said, I am curious to know what it is you believe that is being done by "corporate sellouts and fat cats" that is making America so bad? As I previously posted an article from Forbes magazine that clearly shows how even the bottom ten percent of Americans have a higher standard of living than the bottom ten percent of all the countries in the world except Canada, Sweden, and Australia. Surely something in America is being done correctly. What is it that you find to be so wrong or so unfair that requires immediate change, and how do you suggest we make it better?

 

He paid a few million though. How much did you pay?

 

Fair enough. Kindly allow me to attempt to clear things up.

You said:

Alright, the middle class is not satisfied with what they have. If no laws have been broken, and since there appears that no moral injustices are present, what is your point?

I can't speak for all gnomes but I do apologize if I come across as excitable. This stems from my passion for my beliefs, my genuine desire to prove what I believe to be true to those who may disagree, and my equally genuine desire to challenge them to prove to me that I am in fact wrong, and they are in fact right. At the end of the day, it is not my desire to stand on a pedestal and proclaim how my way is the best way and that I am somehow superior to anyone. It is my intention to try and find the best way to help this country and it's people the best way possible. I welcome all your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions, but I ask that you do not ask me to accept them simply at face value, or because you assert them to be true. I ask that you, and I am being truly genuine when I say this, teach me why, using evidence to substantiate it, that your way is better than my way. I do not see how this can be perceived as vicious, nor am I obsessed with taking anything by force. To the contrary, I have read many views in opposition to mine, that continually declare wealthy people, at times simply by the fact that they are wealthy, and at other times through a perceived exploitation, as being bad or immoral people who should have property forcibly taken from them. But I do not prescribe to this philosophy, nor am I suggesting that you are.

I hope that I have stated my intentions accurately, and that we may continue the debate.

PS- there is, what I believe to be a somewhat endearing, story behind my name that I'd be more that happy to share, or that you may reference in my introduction post.

 

Then what was this (below) all about?

As a policy, this can't be justified if this increases the cost of labor beyond what can be paid from revenues (you've simply created more potential bankruptcy and unemployment. It's useless to increase the minimum wage if that makes labor unaffordable. What will people without a job do?)

 

Say that the rich indeed pay more taxes .
Think what those taxes are used for , is it other than sustaining the state and it's practices as they are established ?
Say that the rich stop paying or pay less taxes.
Will the establishment be shaken to the ground by the angry mob ?
Who will lose in such a case, those on the top or those on the bottom ?

 

Correction~
I would be happy if I just paid the SAME taxes for every dollar they earn like them.... I will never understand why the left is so obbsessed with the rich all the time on these boards. All they ever do is complain

 

I think they do strive and sacrifice a lot just to reach what they achieve right now,
I could say that they already paid their dues, for countries nowaday is such that
the one who earns more are taxed more.
I think it's not envious nor jealousy but a cry for equality and the lack of in depth
discernment of how difficult it is to earn bucks nowadays.

 

it's strange what some people consider necessities. a car??? dinner and a movie???? you've got to be joking. these are things we earn, not things we should expect to have fall in our laps. even those kids you're so concerned about clothing aren't a guaranteed part of this life. i'm so tired of hearing about some unemployable mother with three hungry children. who the hell told her to go out and have three kids she can't afford to take care of or even one for that matter?

what disgusts me even more is when some bleeding heart spouts this "we're screwing the poor" crap. they conveniently forget that the people of this nation willingly hand out more charitable contributions than any other nation on earth. the rich, the middle class and even the poor give away their hard earned cash to help their neighbors and people they've never even seen and they do it without the heavy hand of government forcing them to do so. we help to feed the poor, to clothe the poor and to train the unemployable for jobs and we do it because we do care. but for some people it will never be enough. it won't be enough because they will still only see an inequality and they will give in to the envy of those who do not have to struggle. it won't be enough because their lord and master, the all mighty state, isn't providing us all with everything we need or desire.

what it all comes down to is the fact that today's poor have a standard of living unimaginable a mere fifty years ago simply doesn't fit in with the fantasy or the goals of american liberalism. that we can deal with these problems without government raiding our bank accounts can't be admitted without also admitting it is government that is getting in the way. when i was young we had clinics. free clinics, low cost clinics, pay as you go clinics... a few regulations and a bunch of lawsuits later and those clinics are all gone. the statists will tell you it's because the government was looking out for the little guy, but that's a load of crap. what the political animals were looking out for was their own access to power. they were looking out for the lawyers that get rich off of frivolous lawsuits and the medical concerns that fund their political war chests. they would rather see badly run medical mega-marts become high priced quasi-governmental agencies than allow the private sector to deal honestly with the public on a personal level.

 

it's seems the right is the ones "obsessed" with the rich paying less tax per dollar they earn then the working class does for the dollars they earn

 

Nope we dont think about it..."Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July , but the democrats believe every day is April 15." - Ronald Reagan

 

Great reply Bear, for something as simple as that quote is all that is needed to deal with these leftists. Now whether the truth sets in to a leftist mind is another thing altogether. Btw, welcome to this fun forum.

 

While I love that quote, and I probably agree with many things that both of you believe, I maintain that the country, and those holding our position, are best served by engaging in challenging, intelligent debate with those who disagree. It is, without question, more time consuming and sometimes considerably frustrating, but I believe it is the best approach. I believe that when you debate in a civil, respectful manner, it represents you and your position in the best light. Further, when someone mocks, chides, castigates, refuses to answer questions, ignores facts and presents opinions as facts without substantiating them, it only weakens opinions of them and their position.

Just my two cents. Must I pay my "fair share" of tax on that two cents?

 

Well, I do agree with you that engaging in debate is challenging and frustrating. Frustrating for me in the sense that people may call me a racist just for having a differing opinion on an issue. Once they start the name calling then you can bet the debate is basically over, for they have no intention to sticking to facts to make a point.