Why did Reagan sell weapons to Iran?

It Wouldn't have been by popular vote any more than the over throw of the shah was by an election. And the CIA was essentially going off of British intelligence and at the behest of the British government. And it was after all British Petroleum that didn't want their oil field nationalized. Which indeed was what it was mostly about from the British perspective. The West and not just theUS did a lot of stupid (*)(*)(*)(*) like that in the fifties.

 

Actually I THANK President Obama for bringing many of my Friends home.

The United States Military SHOULD NEVER be handcuffed in how if fights wars or be delegated into becoming a Police Force as it was in Iraq.

Our Military is a SWORD...not Duct Tape.

You should NEVER assume anything about what I think or believe because you have no idea what I have seen and done and been apart of.

AboveAlpha

 

Due to a lack of a better plan to provide for the general welfare.

 

Again....post Shah....we did not sell any usable weapons to Iran....as we sold them useless parts and had Israel sell Iranian Qud's Force agents TOW Anti-Tank Missiles that had defective targeting abilities.

Thus we did NOT sell Weapons to Iran post Shah....as something is NOT a weapon if it cannot be used as a Weapon.

We then used the money to support people we screwed over by first supporting them and then retracting our support.

AboveAlpha

 

In any war you fight you become the security force if you win until you can get a new government running and create a new security force. So what you are saying is we should never ever again fight a war.

 

Your not getting it.

Let's look at the defeat of Japan.

The United States was in a Full Out Warfare mode. There were no consideration for civilian's in this war because Japan had no such considerations and neither did the Nazi's.

After 2 Nuclear Weapon's were dropped the Japanese surrendered unconditionally and the Japanese surrendered HONORABLY.

The United States Military placed over 1 Million U.S. Military personal in Japan after surrender without so much as a FIRECRACKER going off.....same thing happened in Germany.

Now...we invade Iraq....we do our best to avoid civilian casualties more so than has ever been done in HISTORY.

We are fighting an enemy that has ZERO RESPECT OR CARE for their own people....we even leave Fallujah alone after it is determined a Marine siege of Fallujah....a city in the Iraqi province of Al Anbar infested with Insurgents...will cost too many civilian lives....so after at first entering the city we leave it and encircle it even though we are fully capable on destroying the city and rendering all matter within to the size of pebbles.

We come back and take the city after the vast majority of Iraq is under our control.

Insurgents as well as Al-Qaeda Fighters streaming into Iraq use CIVILIANS as Human Shields as they know U.S. Forces will NOT target civilians.

This fact is POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

If Iraq was handled like Germany or Japan....the U.S. Military would NOT be playing Police....in fact in Berlin there was an active ALL GERMAN POLICE FORCE on the job 24 hours after Germany surrendered.

AboveAlpha

 

Didn't we help Arm local insurgents against the Soviet military effort in Afghanistan?

 

Yes we did....in fact at the high point Texas Senator Charlie Wilson had increased the CIA budget to support Afghan Insurgents battling the Soviets to over $1 Billion a year.

When the Soviets left....Wilson and the CIA tried to get the U.S. Congress to supply a lousy $1 Million for schools and education in Afghanistan a year....to make certain the people of Afghanistan KNEW it was the United States that helped them defeat the Soviets....the U.S. Congress refused.

IDIOCY AT IT'S BEST....as if the money was spent 9/11 would NEVER have happened.

AboveAlpha

 

Well at least you're somewhat consistent there.

But that is the role it has played since ww2 - the function of essentially a private police force serving elite interests.

Actually what you mean is it should be a sword. It hasn't really ever been in the modern era.

Actually I can assume away based on your statements. Btw, why do you think being a soldier gives you a greater knowledge or perspective than others?

 

Actually CIA was partly the reason why the soviets invaded in the first place. The US could have just aided the existing socialist state and turned it into an ally, but it's intention was to 'kill soviets' not help poor peasant farmers.

 

As I have stated over and over again....I am NOT Military....I am..."CIVILIAN"....in the manner the quotes denote.

But regardless....actually being there and experiencing things gives a person a much better perspective and understanding of what is needed or not.

AboveAlpha

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When Boris Yeltsin became the first President of Russia he made public the extensive Soviet Military Plans to use Afghanistan as a launching point to seize all of the Middle East and it's Oil wealth.

This is a fact of History.

AboveAlpha

 

How so?

LOL! Well if its a 'fact of History' you can provide a reference to substantiate your claim and show that was the reason for the Soviet invasion.

 

Uhhh....you can't possibly be this uneducated or uninformed.

Look up....Carter Doctrine.

What I have posted earlier is so well known and so known to the main stream I see little reason to have to waste my time educating you.

Do your own studying.

AboveAlpha

 

So you can't back up your bull(*)(*)(*)(*)? Thought so. You have a burden of proof. So far you have no argument just an accusation. You mentioned a book but gave no quotes or page number references/paraphrases.

 

I guess you are that uninformed! LOL!!!

Afghanistan[edit]
See also: Operation Cyclone
In April 1978, the communist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) seized power in Afghanistan in the Saur Revolution. Within months, opponents of the communist government launched an uprising in eastern Afghanistan that quickly expanded into a civil war waged by guerrilla mujahideen against government forces countrywide. The Pakistani government provided these rebels with covert training centers, while the Soviet Union sent thousands of military advisers to support the PDPA government.[79] Meanwhile, increasing friction between the competing factions of the PDPA – the dominant Khalq and the more moderate Parcham – resulted in the dismissal of Parchami cabinet members and the arrest of Parchami military officers under the pretext of a Parchami coup. By mid-1979, the United States had started a covert program to assist the mujahideen.[80]
In September 1979, Khalqist President Nur Muhammad Taraki was assassinated in a coup within the PDPA orchestrated by fellow Khalq member Hafizullah Amin, who assumed the presidency. Distrusted by the Soviets, Amin was assassinated by Soviet special forces in December 1979. A Soviet-organized government, led by Parcham's Babrak Karmal but inclusive of both factions, filled the vacuum. Soviet troops were deployed to stabilize Afghanistan under Karmal in more substantial numbers, although the Soviet government did not expect to do most of the fighting in Afghanistan. As a result, however, the Soviets were now directly involved in what had been a domestic war in Afghanistan.[81]
At the time some believed the Soviets were attempting to expand their borders southward in order to gain a foothold in the Middle East. The Soviet Union had long lacked a warm water port, and their movement south seemed to position them for further expansion toward Pakistan in the East, and Iran to the West. American politicians, Republicans and Democrats alike, feared the Soviets were positioning themselves for a takeover of Middle Eastern oil. Others believed that the Soviet Union was afraid Iran's Islamic Revolution and Afghanistan's Islamization would spread to the millions of Muslims in the USSR.
After the invasion, Carter announced what became known as the Carter Doctrine: that the U.S. would not allow any other outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf. He terminated the Soviet Wheat Deal in January 1980, which was intended to establish trade with USSR and lessen Cold War tensions. The grain exports had been beneficial to people employed in agriculture, and the Carter embargo marked the beginning of hardship for American farmers. That same year, Carter also made two of the most unpopular decisions of his entire Presidency: prohibiting American athletes from participating in the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, and reinstating registration for the draft for young males. Following the Soviet invasion, the United States supported diplomatic efforts to achieve a Soviet withdrawal. In addition, generous U.S. contributions to the refugee program in Pakistan played a major part in efforts to assist Afghan refugees.
Carter and Brzezinski started a $3–4 billion covert program of arming insurgents in Afghanistan to foil the Soviets' apparent plans. Carter's diplomatic policies towards Pakistan in particular changed drastically. The administration had cut off financial aid to the country in early 1979 when religious fundamentalists, encouraged by the prevailing Islamist military dictatorship over Pakistan, burnt down a U.S. Embassy based there. The international stake in Pakistan, however, had greatly increased with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The President of Pakistan, General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, was offered 400 million dollars to subsidize the anti-communist Mujahideen in Afghanistan by Carter. General Zia declined the offer as insufficient, famously declaring it to be "peanuts," and the U.S. was forced to step up aid to Pakistan.
Reagan would later expand this program greatly to combat Cold War concerns presented by the Soviet Union at the time. Critics of this policy blame Carter and Reagan for the resulting instability of post-Soviet Afghan governments, which led to the rise of Islamic theocracy in the region.
Years later, in a 1997 CNN/National Security Archive interview, Brzezinski detailed the strategy taken by the Carter administration against the Soviets in 1979:
We immediately launched a twofold process when we heard that the Soviets had entered Afghanistan. The first involved direct reactions and sanctions focused on the Soviet Union, and both the State Department and the National Security Council prepared long lists of sanctions to be adopted, of steps to be taken to increase the international costs to the Soviet Union of their actions. And the second course of action led to my going to Pakistan a month or so after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, for the purpose of coordinating with the Pakistanis a joint response, the purpose of which would be to make the Soviets bleed for as much and as long as is possible; and we engaged in that effort in a collaborative sense with the Saudis, the Egyptians, the British, the Chinese, and we started providing weapons to the Mujaheddin, from various sources again – for example, some Soviet arms from the Egyptians and the Chinese. We even got Soviet arms from the Czechoslovak communist government, since it was obviously susceptible to material incentives; and at some point we started buying arms for the Mujaheddin from the Soviet army in Afghanistan, because that army was increasingly corrupt.


LINK...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Jimmy_Carter
AboveAlpha

 

Your own source proves you wrong. It states the reason for Soviet intervention was to 'stabilize Afghanistan' and 'the Soviet government did not expect to do most of the fighting in Afghanistan.' Nothing there about a grand invasion of the Middle East and the Soviet Union's southern neighbors, known since 1990s that you spoke of.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong. Its hilarious how you called me uninformed yet have failed twice to validate your nonsense.

 

I don't have much respect for overseas boobs who cannot possibly imagine that Iran was afraid of what Reagan may do once elected.

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He doesn't have to be privy. He simply has to have at least 1/4 a brain. Anyone with at least that amount of grey matter easilly understands that the circumstances were vastly different now and then. Reagan was simply attempting to keep each side in the Middle East relatively unbalanced by ensuring that they were a threat to one another.

That way, he wouldn't have to send our troops.

This is obvious to anyone with even a small brain. But not to liberal foreigners - they're the most stupid on this planet.

 

That was what the stated reason for Invading Afghanistan was from the Politburo...but do yourself a favor...EDUCATE YOURSELF.

AboveAlpha

 

Lol Reagan was a total idiot whose job was to read off prompters and attend political functions. He 'couldn't recall' half of his decisions let alone understand them.

 

Where did your source say that? Try harder you're losing.

 

Cool story, bro. Of course, said person ate the lunch of every liberal he ever debated.

Derp.

 

Read this again.

In September 1979, Khalqist President Nur Muhammad Taraki was assassinated in a coup within the PDPA orchestrated by fellow Khalq member Hafizullah Amin, who assumed the presidency. Distrusted by the Soviets, Amin was assassinated by Soviet special forces in December 1979. A Soviet-organized government, led by Parcham's Babrak Karmal but inclusive of both factions, filled the vacuum. Soviet troops were deployed to stabilize Afghanistan under Karmal in more substantial numbers, although the Soviet government did not expect to do most of the fighting in Afghanistan. As a result, however, the Soviets were now directly involved in what had been a domestic war in Afghanistan.[81]
At the time some believed the Soviets were attempting to expand their borders southward in order to gain a foothold in the Middle East. The Soviet Union had long lacked a warm water port, and their movement south seemed to position them for further expansion toward Pakistan in the East, and Iran to the West. American politicians, Republicans and Democrats alike, feared the Soviets were positioning themselves for a takeover of Middle Eastern oil. Others believed that the Soviet Union was afraid Iran's Islamic Revolution and Afghanistan's Islamization would spread to the millions of Muslims in the USSR.

AboveAlpha

 

He neither possesses the intelligence to understand your post, nor the humility to cede any point - despite his claim in his signature line.

 

Back in the 80's when I first started....one of my first....JOBS...was to study and assess Soviet Leader Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov....a former head of the KGB (State Security Committee) from 1967 to 1982.

Now back then when Reagan was in office we did not do a lot of direct communication between people like me on the other side UNTIL Andropov took power.

The REASON....Andropov scared the HELL out of the KGB, GRU, Politburo and we had Soviet Agents coming up to us in West Berlin saying..."Hey....I think we both have a problem."

They told us Andropov who KNEW he was dying was in a state of dementia and had convinced himself that HE was destined to be the Soviet Leader who wold invade Western Europe and the Middle East and then after establishing a warm weather port in Kuwait....build a Soviet Navy to rival the immense U.S. Navy and then if necessary go to a state of all out WAR with NATO and the United States.

Andropov's OWN PEOPLE WERE SCARED TO DEATH THIS GUY WOULD START WWIII....scared to the point they came to warn up this problem existed and they were working on a solution as fast as they could.

Some people here like Mega....simply have NO IDEA how bad it got back then and just how close we were to Nuclear War.

AboveAlpha

 

Lol! Yet he was a massive idiot and a complete waste of space. Didn't he just 'forget' everything he did when it turned out to be illegal? Haha can't get more crazy dumb than that.