Terrorists fire rockets from Gaza hospital

Well, Ramadan almost ended and the goals of hamas hasn't been met yet.

 

very true. Hamas has had enough of the past 70 years. Gaza is becoming uninhabitable. Hamas walked the extra mile for her people and managed to to gain unity for Palestinians. OMG too much for Israel. This cannot do. Hamas must be got rid of. A few weeks later 3 Israeli teenagers were kidnapped by we do not know who. Excellent opportunity for Israel to put into practise what she had been planning. Collective punishment against all palestinians. Not allowed to move. Houses ramsacked and looted. Some blown up. 9 Palestinians killed including children. Now Hamas did what Israel and Israeli's knew she would do. She started firing rockets. She always does that when Palestinians are killed and treated badly. Israel knew she would react.

Clearly Hamas had been preparing for this.......does that make her the villain? I say no. The reason she has been planning for this is because Israel has not honoured the previous ceasefire. Hamas has set out what she needs to for a ten year truce - and anyone who cannot find a way to make a ten year truce last indefinitely does not want it to be so.

Here are her ten conditions for her ten year truce

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/report-israel-conditions.html

But what do we get instead? We get all kind of justifications for a level of brutality that looks like it could go on to genocide....and is that surprising? Of course not. Many Israeli's have been asking for this for many years. Some on this site.

A British Jew suggest Jews start remembering Jewish values

http://jfjfp.com/?p=62759

Now lets start getting honest about what Hamas and the Palestinians need and want.

 

Its not a mystery, Hamas outright states what they want in BIG Letters. The destruction of Israel, and the death to all jews in the world. One thing about Hamas they are not hiding their intentions.

They do not want peace, never have. Saying this war is about Jewish occupation of Gaza, or Israel making Gaza into a war zone. Is BS, its all about Hamas and the fact they do not want to, and will never recognize Israel, and no matter how much land Israel gives them, they will keep launching rockets into Israel. They will never want to live in peace side by side with Israel. Ever , Ever, Ever,

They only want to kill every jew on earth. How can you negotiate with them, its not about giving them land, having a port for commerce, or any of that, Israel can give them whatever they want, and they will still use whatever small resources they have, to make war with Israel.

 

Wrong. That might have been in their original charter but so was it in the Likud Party's. Indeed by all accounts Hamas copied it from them and do not for one moment tell me that right wing Israeli's who are far and wide at the moment do not speak of this to befall the Palestinians both day and night at the moment. They are the danger. They are the people with power. They are the people bent on destroying the Palestinians taking over their land and then some more. Continually making a mantra about this aspect of Hamas's old charter is simply an attempt to get permission from the world for genocide..and doing it while they themselves are the one,s currently saying it about the Palestinians.

They want a just solution. That is what they have wanted since they decided to become political. That is what the vast majority of Palestinians want. Jihad salafis are now in operation in Gaza. They gained strength due to Israel refusing to negotiate with Hamas and hence nothing changing. That I imagine is what Israel hopes will be all that is left after she has destroyed Gaza and killed possibly thousands of her civilians. Hamas currently keeps them in check. Whe Israel has destroyed Gaza and she is taken over by Al Qaeda types she likely thinks it will be very easy to get world approval for the final solution.

The Palestinians say again and again they want a just solution. A just solution will lead to peace. There is no indication that Israel has any intention on giving these people she keeps for decades under severe duress any justice. Hence clearly Israel has no interest in peace.

well they say differently to you. They will offer a ten year truce provided their ten conditions are met. Any country who cannot turn a ten year truce into an indefinite truce does not want it.

Here are their ten conditions

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/report-israel-conditions.html

Of interest I did not say myself the problem was the occupation but you clearly either knew it was so or looked at their demands and realised it was so which it is.

Now then, lets repeat. All these slogans about Hamas are just slogans. They are for the person who either wants to harm the Palestinians or does not believe in looking into the situation. They represent far right thinking not Jewish liberal thinking. A British Jew asks Jews to remember Jewish values.

http://jfjfp.com/?p=62759

It is time for people to start being honest. Enough Gazans have been annihilated and made homeless and I understand it is spreading to the West Bank. (Israel far rights wet dream!) Hamas has said what it wants. This 'war' was not started by Hamas. It was orchestrated by Israel as I said in post 27

 

56 mosques, 7 hospitals hit in Israeli offensive


• Death toll passes 700 mark

http://www.arabnews.com/news/featured/606821

 

The above line has been proven false time and time again by Hamas.

Israel withdrew from Gaza when the above line was used. The very day they withdrew Hamas shot rockets at Israel, attacked Israeli soldiers on the border, tried to infiltrate Israel through tunnels, and has never since the day the IDF withdrew stopped its attacks.

Israel was not occupying Gaza but Hamas continued to attack.

Its absurd to state Hamas only attacks because Gaza was occupied. Its attacked because it attacks and because it embraces a belief that the only solution is one that envisions a terrorist war that will not end until Israel ceases to exist.

If Hamas was interested in peace and only protecting its people, the last thing it would do is place missile launchers in their homes and use their schools, hospitals, mosques, community centres as covers for their terrorist attacks. It would not be placing its civilians directly in harm's way and stating on its radio that it will continue to use its people as tools of war and that every death of a Palestinian civilian helps liberate Israel.

 

56 mosques, 7 hospitals hit in Israeli offensive


• Death toll passes 700 mark

http://www.arabnews.com/news/featured/606821

Israel has isolated and confined Gaza's refugees.

 

In regards to 1 your comment is absurd. When Hamas was an organization that was against terrorism and violence its affiliated charities worked directly with the State of Israel to build roads, schools, hospitals, mosques, green-houses, homes, community centres. That is a fact.

It is also a fact that a terrorist wing then took over Hamas. It didn't walk an extra mile for Palestinians. What a crock. What a silly think to say. It didn't walk anywhere. What it did do was blow up those mosques, schools, roads, community centres, green-houses. Then what it did was walk door to door, not miles, killing Palestinians who had been going to Israel to work. It ddragged them out of their homes, put rubber tires on their necks and then lit them on fire. It dragged them through the streets and pulled their colons out and mutilated their bodies as a warning never to cooperate with Israel.

Walk a mile? What a crock.

In regards to 2, 10 year truce? What a joke. The truce specifically states, its temporary because it also states, after that 10 years war will resume if not sooner. You forget that part in your selective presentation of the 10 year truce. How about instead of misrepresenting it you state it exactly for what it is and what Hamas claims it is, a lull in the war to give Hamas time to build up its arsenal.

In regards to 3, why don't you? Why the Hamas cheerleading?

 

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Israel has on several occasions given up land for peace, and truce conditions. Each time usually within days, they still received terrorist attacks from terrorist groups. This is not what Hamas wants, if you do not believe me, why was there not been one conditioning in the truce accepting Israel's right to exist? Do you honestly think if Israel gave Hamas everything on their list, they would stop launching rockets into Israel? They would accept Israel's right to exist?.

Can say without a doubt Hamas, who has not changed their charter, would recognize Israels right to exist in peace?

Of coarse not, your 10 year truce is fantasy land. This is all posturing, and you know as well as I do, Hamas has never wanted to live side by side with Israel in peace. Hamas and Palestine have held firm their belief that Israel does not exist, and has no right to exist. They have not once said in any negotiation, Israel has the right to exist.

Also Hamas could care less for the Palestinian people, Israel cares more about them. Hamas also has said many times they value death. They think making innocent people martyrs is giving them a gift from Allah. That is why they have no problems putting their weapons in schools and hospitals. Hamas only values Palestinians as human shields and PR objects.

Every Israeli poll show, that the bulk of Israeli people would love to live in peace side by side with Palestine,and want negotiations for peace. Every Arab poll states they do not want to live in peace with Israel, and want them wiped off the face of the earth.

How is your ten year truce going tow work with that kind of hatred.

 

Yes to the above. Its a damn shame. A damn shame. Now I ask you of those 56 mosques and 7 hospitals, do you know how many were used as military sites? Do you?

You do realize Hamas uses its mosques and hospitals as military weapon depots where it stores its weapons and terrorists?

You think Israel woke up this morning and said-let's blow up hospitals and kill people.

You do realize not one hospital blown up has denied Hamas was using them and the Mosques do not deny they are military posts?

As for those 700 civilians, there is zero doubt children, innocent children are denying. So I ask you why does Hamas shoot rockets into Israel and invite attacks back. Why does it shoot its rockets from homes where these children live? Why? Why does it use these children as shields?

Finally yes Israel has isolated and confine Gaza's civilians. It has had no choice. Hamas isolated and confied those civilians first. It holds those people as hostages in the war with Israel. It deliberately kills them to gain support for its mission.

Hamas holds those people as shields and yes they are trapped and its a damn shame. They suffer and are trapped and living in a hell.

Yes.

So you tell me Margot what is the option for Israel? Does it sit back while missiles come in at it daily forcing 3/4's of its people every 10 minutes to run to shelters?

Does it sit back while Hamas tunnels into Israel to try kidnap and kill people?

What does Israel do, sit on its ass while Hamas continues its war to rid the Middle East of not just Israelis but all Jews. Read its charter.

Tell me what is the option. Read Alexa's post, she thinks Hamas has unified its people. She writes them all off as unfiied in wanting what Hamas does. Do you?

Do you not think that maybe just maybe its possible Palestinians do not want war and are willing to live side by side with Israel but can not say so because if they do Hamas will kill them?

So who does Israel reach out to? Mr. Abbas? he stood up in his assembly and gave a standing ovation when a fellow PA leader chanted death to Israel. He has stated over and over he will never recognize a Jewish state and when talking to his people tells them over and over Israel is only temporarily there until its recaptured andall of Israel, the West Bank and Jordan are a Sunni Caliphate state. Those are his party's position not mine.


Can we get real.

Palestinians are dying because their leaders choose death for them. They choose violence and terror as their destiny in this delusional belief they cling to that Israel will soon no longer exist.

Its a crock. Israel can not and will not disappear and go poof.

Until Palestinians are liberated from their terrorists and corupt political leaders and allowed to live in peace, the IDF can not return to its barracks.

It is that simple and yet that profound and you can point the finger at the IDF or Israel but until you seriously discuss what Hamas and the PA have failed to do for their people you will keep missing the point and that point is terrorism has done nothing but subject Palestinians to poverty and death.

Its time moderate Palestinians say enough is enough to Hamas and reach out to Israeli moderates to help them liberate themselves from Hamas.

It will have to be done outside the conflict zone because Palestinian moderates will be killed if they call for peace and the recognition of a Jewish state.

The pro Israeli moderates have not gone anywhere but we are silenced by the missiles. All we can do is pray they stop. We mourn the death of Palestinians no differently than we do the death of innocent Israelis.

 

ok i did so there firing rockets at Israel, out of a huge refugee camp and there is little the israel can do but to return fire on them.. sounds like the refugees are up a SH*T! creek without a paddle as there in the line of fire.

 

All 22 Arab states signed on the Saudi Peace Initiative in 2002 which guaranteed Israel's security.

 

The initiative attempts to end the Arab–Israeli conflict, which means normalizing relations between the entire Arab region and Israel, in exchange for a complete withdrawal from the occupied territories (including East Jerusalem) and a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee crisis based on UN Resolution 194 (which calls for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and resolves that any refugees "wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors" should be able to do so or, if they otherwise wish, should be provided with compensation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

No comment, Margot.

 

Well you have the right to think what you want but Hamas had to jump through many hoops to get unity going with Fatah, something she was more than likely only willing to do due to the dire situation which Gaza is currently in. You may think it absurd that she was prepared to do this. I do not.

When Israel was using Hamas to try to defeat Fatah you mean. I do not know what this has to do with Hamas working to get unity with Fatah so that together they could accomplish a just solution for the Palestinians.

Terrorist wing is simply what it is called in order to get people immidiately thinking OH 9/11 run!! Hamas has various wings. She does have a military wing and she does believe that all Israel will listen to is violence. That is what she has come to believe and unfortunately many in Gaza have come to believe that Hamas is not sufficiently violent - due to Israel refusing to speak to her. That has led to many leaving Hamas and joining the salafi jihadist groups who nowadays do most of the bombing and over whom Hamas does not have complete control - just as Israel does not have complete control over the settlers who I heard yesterday have murdered 60 Palestinians this year in the West Bank.

seriously you've already done this one and I have answered it above. Hamas gave up a lot to get unity so that the Palestinian people would be in a position to accomplish a just solution. This Israel could not bare so she orchestrated the situation which eventually gave her the ability to set about destroying Gaza in this so called war as I showed in post 27. If you are going to reply to what I say then I suggest you do reply to what I say. Otherwise there is little possibility of communication.

Stop being rude. Grow up and start debating properly rather than trying to insult with everything you say. It puts you in a poor position. I have illustrated and argued what I have said. You are now just indulging in toilet speak not arguing points which were made. This suggest you yourself have no answers and only slogans or dirt.

What exactly did not walk anywhere? I certainly did not talk about anything walking anywhere. Are you drinking?

I take it you are talking about Israel but you are making no sense.

Please try and speak about what we are discussing. You were responding to my post but you simply seem to be waffling. You believe that Israel not only kills Palestinians but also Israelis going to work? You are wasting my time.


That is enough of wasting my time with you as you talk gibberish.

The current pounding of Gaza was orchestrated by Israel due to her fear of the Palestinians having a unity government and it's ability to accomplish a just peace. Hamas herself had been preparing for such a situation due to Israel not honouring what was agreed in the 2012 peace agreement. This time she is not prepared just to be left in the hell she is in and the whole thing of Israel destroying Gaza and killing thousands to be repeated whenever Israel wants. This time she is not prepared to have a cease fire without the situation being there for it to continue. She is prepared to start with a ten year truce providing her ten conditions are met. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/report-israel-conditions.html

A British Jew asks that Jews start remembering Jewish values when assessing what is happening in Gaza and what needs to be done.

http://jfjfp.com/?p=62759

He puts the situation well. I still wait people to start getting honest. Slogans are not that.

Good night

 

I would think that by the third generation the refugees would drop the victim status and learn how to deal with it.

 

Another war crime today. Those pesky Palestinians even had the gall to use Israeli tanks to shoot up a declared safe haven in a UN school, housing 800 refugees driven from their homes in the lastest putsch.

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-24/itv-news-witnesses-aftermath-of-un-school-attack-in-gaza/

 

Did you try to tell that to the Holocaust survivors?

 

There is no "dispute" .. Palestinian Christians and Muslims lived there and farmed, raised olives, livestock for hundreds and hundreds of years.. They were also merchants and had small factories.

- - - Updated - - -

The holocaust survivors were refugees seeking sanctuary when no one else would take them in..

 

Everyone who can read and comprehend knows the lands are disputed. Period.

By the way Margot, do you know the roots of the word Palestinian?

 

You know what? In shooting war, (*)(*)(*)(*) happens.

 

maybe if Hamas keeps firing more rockets at Israel, the Jews will leave them alone.

 

Kids die when you don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) who you hit. Four established UN buildings in four days.

 

Kids die when their parents are Hamas, or when parents vote for Hamas knowing full well that Hamas's only reason to exist is to wage war against Israel, or when parents let Hamas install rocket launchers in their backyard....

 

The "kids and their parents are guilty by association" argument was used by OBL to justify 911. Such company you keep.

Palestinian kids die when Israel commits war crimes against them too.