The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons

Oops, was George Bush right? Are these weapons now surfacing with ISIS?

Let the excuses begin:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...p-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Two technicians assigned to dispose of munitions stepped into the hole. Lake water seeped in. One of them, Specialist Andrew T. Goldman, noticed a pungent odor, something, he said, he had never smelled before.
He lifted a shell. Oily paste oozed from a crack. “That doesn’t look like pond water,” said his team leader, Staff Sgt. Eric J. Duling.
The specialist swabbed the shell with chemical detection paper. It turned red — indicating sulfur mustard, the chemical warfare agent designed to burn a victim’s airway, skin and eyes.
All three men recall an awkward pause. Then Sergeant Duling gave an order: “Get the hell out.”

In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is that no one ever released this information at the time. The government witheld this information as the article suggests. This state secrecy could have easily exonerated Bush from his detractors claims of WMD.

If ISIS gets them...

 

I couldn't agree more. I have a feeling since the United States was complicit in saddam/Iraq getting these weapons, it would stand to reason why they kept it secret.

 

But the bottom line remains. Saddam did have chemical weapons.

 

They may have been corroded. I like how the article still says it doesn't verify the US claims or exonerate them. Honestly, I think it's bogus.

Failed oversight in this area has now let ISIS get control of the chemical weapons compound. If anything, the state secrecy surrounding these finds and the casualties that have been the result of their finding now puts alot of folks at risk.

corroded they may be, but one of those warheads landing in a nursery or a church/mosque is a damned shame.

 

Yep. Sadly, we'd probally still be better off if Saddam was in power and still possessed those chemical weapons.

 

I found it, in the article. Looks like the Pentagon didn't follow protocol when it came to disposing of and documenting of these weapons. Also, that the majority were designed and manufactured in the US and Europe, paying homage to our support of Iraq against Iran.

Just goes to show you - when government decides it can play both sides, play god and try to police the world, you get caught red handed. Not only did we supply them, let our soldiers be at risk when they found them, we put millions more at risk by not disclosing them, because we are too ashamed of what we did.

One thing that stood out to me in the article is that these weapons were pre-91, so Saddam was not manufacturing them anymore, but he DID in the end have chemical weapons, and he could have used them. So that piece is most certainly not a lie.

I guess the bigger lie was that Bush said "We know he has them" but wouldn't say how, because of the aforementioned shame.

 

Yep and as I have posted and reported for years he also had the precursor chemicals, EXTREMELY lethal in their own right, needed to rearm along with new chemical weapons shells hidden from inspectors.

Yep let the excuses begin.

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Myth.....

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Why would that be, he would be supplying them to terrorist groups to use in terrorist attacks against western states. We would be better off with an independent, democratic ally in Iraq which Obama blew.

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BUSH, BUSH, BUSH let it begin.

We knew he had them because UNSCOM had cataloged them. What do you think they were looking for? Then there were the proscribed materials we found hidden from inspectors with which he could have rearmed within a matter of weeks.

As the Clinton administration said Saddam WAS a WMD threat and would remain a WMD threat as long as he was in power.

 

Saddam wasn't interested in bringing down the west, he was interested in maintaining his power. There is no reason to believe that Saddam would have supplied Terrorists mustard gas to use against the west.

Iraq should not exist as a single nation. It never should have. There should be a kurdish state in the north, a sunni state in the west and a shia state in the east. No plan for a united Iraq ever had a chance, and it'd be a mistake to try an put Iraq back together now.

 

Uhh, I am not putting blame on Bush here. I am saying that the reason we witheld the information overall was because we were ashamed we manufactured them in the first place, or at least that's my assumption.

 

maybe because despite what you think of Bush, he was man of morals and principles and did not put himself ahead of the office.

If he was doing right for the country, but felt it best not to defend himself by remaining quiet, then that is what he did

We've become so accustomed to our egotistical POTUS that we forgot how a POTUS should behave

 

Chemical Weapons...But that was Bushs biggest lie according to the left!?!?!?!

 

ROFL those are not mutually exclusive goals and yes we know from what we found he was very interested in supporting terrorist attacks against western states.

Moot point the fact Saddam was and would always be a WMD threat to his own people, to the region and the world as both the Clinton and Bush administrators clearly and correctly stated. And BTW the presumptive Democrat nominee for President who was quite emphatic and unequivocal about it.

 

And that is nothing but absurd conjecture. Saddam was making his own WMD, Clinton even bombed one of the factories. We found the highly concentrate organophophates and had secretly purchased while under sanctions, the chemicals deadly in their own right he would have refined into even more dangerous nerve gases within weeks of the sanctions being lifted and Hans Blix declaring he couldn't find anything. And while the NYT may be reporting this as new news, we have been finding these cites for years and yes they were reported on years ago.

 

Actually, yes they were mutually exclusive goals.

Democrats and Republicans screwed up Iraq pretty badly.

 

Misquote much? WE manufactured parts of the shells. Before you bother attacking me for "disliking" Bush, perhaps you should stop categorizing me in with "liberals" who automatically dislike him. WE manufactured the shells. It's fact. That's why I believe we didn't disclose these findings, moreover, we didn't follow standard protocol in removing them, also fact. Deal.

 

They may already have them.

http://www.ibtimes.com/saddam-era-chemical-weapons-now-under-isis-control-reports-1705144


And another

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/1...-using-chemical-weapons-on-kurds-says-report/


When people used to point out stories of the shells found in Iraq, to exonerate Bush...the response form the Anti-Bush crowd was always riducule. That there werent enough to count as WMD...or that they were so degraded they didnt count, or the ever popular dismiss the sources. Looks like whatever was used was still potent.

 

We are supposed to care about this?

The biggest threat to us from them is "the path of Jihad and proper action," as it was on 9/11, not WMD, It was not a war on WMD, it was a war on Terror:

“H32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

August, 1996: "More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void.
The treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) once Quraysh had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah, the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him). The prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) fought Quraysh and concurred Makka. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market." (Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places.)

March 1997: "Though Bin Ladin had promised Taliban leaders that he would be circumspect, he broke this promise almost immediately, giving an inflammatory interview to CNN in March 1997. The Taliban leader Mullah Omar promptly 'invited' Bin Ladin to move to Kandahar, ostensibly in the interests of Bin Ladin's own security but more likely to situate him where he might be easier to control.73
There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response. According to one report, Saddam Hussein's efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.74" (The 9/11 commission report, page 65-66)

A significant response?

July 1997, South Movement, "the path of Jihad and proper action": "Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq's national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/countries/Iraq/speech.htm

February 17, 1998: “While speaking at the Pentagon on February 17, 1998, President Bill Clinton warned of the ‘reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.’ These ‘predators of the twenty-first century,’ he said ‘will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq.’“ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Fox http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/

“Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: ‘But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)’; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.”
One Iraq, Two Iraq, Three Iraq!

September 2001: "Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General...David Muller, South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia" http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/call1004.php

“As we said before to those who launched aggressions on us, including the US, in and before Um-Almarik (the mother of the battles), the world, like Iraq and its Arab nation, needs steadfastness to face the aggression, make it miss its targets. It must not allow the US to be victorious. The victory of the US and its allies over Iraq would conceal the opposing attitude and analysis, and would not allow it to emerge again for a long time.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

“On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop.
Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings. It is only normal to say that punishment is a necessity in our world, because what is a necessity in the other world must also be necessary in our world on Earth. But, the punishment in the other world is faire and just, and the prophets and messengers of God (peace be upon them all) conducted punishment and called for it in justice, and not on the basis of suspicions and whims.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

“Once again, we say that, injustice and the pressure that results from it on people lead to explosions. As explosions are not always organized, it is to be expected that they may harm those who make them and others. The events of September 11, should be seen on this basis, and on the basis of imbalanced reactions, on the part of governments accused of being democratic, if the Americans are sure that these were carried out by people from abroad.
To concentrate not on what is important, but rather on what is the most important, we say again that after having seen that the flames of any fire can expand to cover all the world, it first and foremost, needs justice based on fairness. The best and most sublime expression of this is in what we have learned from what God the Al Mighty ordered to be, or not to be.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

Who are the magical “they” that Saddam said, “should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings?”

 

Actually no they were totally entwined and with the sanctions posed to be lifted he was preparing to move forward on both.

Where Clinton failed Bush succeeded and now Obama has failed.

 

Which are manufactured by private companies and available on the open market, the ones we found having not been declared to inspectors, they were surreptitiously obtained and hidden along with the precursor chemcials.

"Rising production created another need. Mr. Hussein’s military did not possess the munitions for dispersing chemical agents. So it embarked on another buying spree, purchasing empty ordnance — aviation bombs from a Spanish manufacturer, American-designed artillery shells from European companies, and Egyptian and Italian ground-to-ground rockets — to be filled in Iraq."

 

Everyone that has touched Iraq has failed.


The fact that you can't admit that shows you are just a party tool.

 

That sums it up.

 

Please enough of this Chemical weapon crap. It had nothing to do with that. It was the petro dollar. The first thing we did were to take back the oil wells and two days into the war we place the American petro dollar back into their system. Two Days!!!! Not hospitals or schools or anything else. The petro dollar was more important.

 

The goals of the ILA and the ATUMF were the removal of Saddam and his government and democratic elections for a new one. Clinton failed, Bush succeeded.

The fact you have to get snarky proves you can't refute the facts.

 

I have to agree with your last statement. I am curious though why the secrecy from revealing the truth, Bush would have benefited greatly by exposing this