Muslims respond in revulsion to Charlie Hebdo massacre

So true, so true.
You should consider changing your username to CJtheMagnificent.

 

Islam still has religious authorities.

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If I remember correctly, over 70% of British Muslims said that the Danish cartoonist should have been persecuted.

 

we need more than words, we need actions.

Muslims need to start snitching on extremists and turning them into the police.

 

Muslims are extremely separated. And that is their main problem. But they received no help or even example from us. Neither from christians nor from atheists. We are much more separated inside ourselves. The history of Crusades taught muslims that westerners cannot be trusted. Crusades started as an attempt to help Byzantium people of eastern christianity from western christians. It continued as an attempt to own the holy city of Jerusalem and some of the land of muslims. It ended as the betrayal and destruction of Byzantium by western knights who acted as killers and were paid for killing their own brothers. And the victory over our civilization was made by muslims once they united their efforts.

So there is a zero possibility that muslims would kill their brothers again just in order to please some western guys who have their own beliefs of good and evil. They have a reason. Recently another wedding in Afghanistan was bombed by quite a western operator. Their blood is as read as the blood of french journalists and I understand the point of muslims to value the blood of their people more then the blood of ours.

1.2 bn muslims all over the world don't need to prove anything to us. They just live the same planet.

 

Supposedly all the major players oppose ISIS at least in public. Iran certainly doesn't like them and as you said Turkey is already fighting them and so are Iraqi's and Syrians. Yet only when the airstrikes caused somewhat of a stalemate did their advance slow. The Saudis, Egyptians alone have enough military power to squash ISIS. The key metric is not the military power though, its the militias that form and they are far and few between compared to ISIS. The fact is that outside of the governments the average Muslim is doing absolutely nothing to oppose ISIS accept for the occasional marches which are ultimately very small.

The only good thing that might come of this is that Israel might end up ending ISIS by themselves and completely embarrass the useless Arab states.

 

What a load of crap. Shia and Sunni have been fighting virtually nonstop. Muslims have absolutely no problems killing each other as has been shown multiple times historically by conflicts between Iran and Iraq and other Islamic nations. The reason that the average Muslim doesn't do anything to oppose ISIS is simply because they are either complete cowards or they sympathize with ISIS. Those are the only two explanations.

 

Which throats are cut in Iraq? It's christian throats. Who is the most enemy of Iran which is under sanctions and Iraq which was bombed into civil war not by its neighbours but by someone who live much further?

Muslims feel the threat from westerners which is much more comparing to the threat that westerners feel from the side of muslims. ISIS is a radical response of their scare, offence nad vengeance. ISIS is the darkest face of muslims and it looks at us. It's a response for their humiliations and struggle and it's a response to us.

But if you feel better thinking that these guys are just cowards - feel free to go there and tell these words at their faces... You are not a coward, right? And you are a big boy enough to be responsible for what you say, right? Will ya?

 

A tiny minority of lunatics won't be reformed, ever. They have as little in common with mainstream Islam as the Lord's Resistance Army have with mainstream Christianity. It isn't Islam which needs to reform and conflating the extremists with the majority is fundamentally dishonest-and pointless.

 

Christians are pretty good at killing each other too; two world wars, countless civil wars. Or do we ignore them?

 

They have been doing something about it for over a decade... pitched gun battles, putting them in prison and confiscating their assets.

 

In most of the Arab world Sunni and Shia coexist peacefully.....

 

And it's no coincidence that wherever Sunni and Shia are most at odds is in countries where the West has been messing...

 

Except none of these things were motivated by religion. But, of course, you knew that. You're just desperately trying to defend Muslims. Defending brown people gives you warm and fuzzies.

 

Yeah sure you can go do your thing in the Middle East and when things go bad blame all Muslims and have them fix it somehow.

Besides whatever Muslims do it won't be enough. I remember 10 years ago Muslims were wrong for not being vocal. Now they're wrong for only being vocal. What will the next carrot be?

You know what, you can't mess with a whole region and group of people and not take part of responsibility in problems that have occurred as a result of the mess.

 

Excellent.

So then, none of these people should have any problem with increased vigilance and surveillance in the mosques, correct?

Because these terrorists WERE Muslims, that much has been established factually. And therefore there was a place of worship, somewhere.

So, if the Muslim religion is so porous that stuff like this goes on in the mosques and "no one notices" till it's too late, I think that calls for some additional level of oversight.

What do you think?

 

Term meaning compulsion or coercion by means of physical rather than moral power. A theological expression used in connection with human actions carried out under compulsion and those carried out of free choice (ikhtiyar). The majority of Sunnis accept that all human actions, whether acquired skills (such as writing) or involuntary motions (such as breathing), are ultimately created by God.

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/the_taqiyya_libel_against_muslims/0014285

 

Yeah, they always do. At least publicly.

 

Most mosques in the occidental world are already infiltrated by the authorities. Also, many upcoming muslims terrorist plots are denounced by other, more moderate muslims.

Mosques are not the Nazi bunkers you expect them to be. Sure, it's there that numerous extremists of the same inclination can meet one another, but they generally keep their plots to themselves, safely out of the mosque - they do not elaborate them in front of the choir, as crazy as that may sound, for fear of denonciation.

 

WW2 wasn't religious, it was actually the most politically charged war in history.(We just ignore the politics of that war). The AXIS(Italy, Japan and Germany) all believed they were breaking free from what they saw as a Plutocratic Western civilization, which owned a lot more land, territories and peoples than they did all the meanwhile denying them their "right of expansion".

If the West could expand, then the AXIS had all right to expand. Though I disagree in this modern age on a "right of expansion". But I do agree that 19th century Westerners were hypocritical.

The religious part largely comes from NS Germany. Fascist Italy/Imperial Japan were political actors all the way through. WWI on the other hand, was more religious and more secular and it only became a world war due to the various treaties and obligations.

The Religious Wars largely took their place between the 16-18th centuries, the Christian Crusade, the Roman Catholic Empire and Bloody Sunday.

 

"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry
becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused
a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in
Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire,
which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and
stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’
Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect."
....................................................................................Salman Rushdie

I am with Rushdie on this one - Any people whose Relgion has devolved into a severe
Literal Fundamentalism, have allowed themselves to be taken by the poisoned seed -
.................................................................................."You are with us or you are against us"

Anybody who believes that he has an exclusive right to speak for God and holds special office
before the Creator, must see any dissent as Evil and oppose it as such - It is a Psychotic Pathology,
............................................................................................................................ an Ugly Spiritual Disease

And that includes those written in stone Dogmas of a Christian or Judaic variety just as well as Islam

There are good Moslems & there are Bad Moslems, and if you allow or encourage
Hatred of all Moslems for the Atrocities commited by a perverse fanatical clique,
then you Monger Hate & YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM

Hate is a mechanism used by those who manipulate societies with greedy evil intent,
to infect and effect their Control, and to many here on PF have seemed to have succumbed..
.......................................................................................... and have learned to embrace their Disease

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Well, religion and politics are pretty much identical- minus God. Whether it be the Religious Wars or WWII, two sides were fighting for their own way of life.

 

Great website and well worth reading.. Do you remember Ankaboot?

 

If it is a declaration of war, when are these councils going to rally their troops and take up arms and fight them? When will we hear THAT news? Talk is cheap...

 

Ankaboot? The spider????? a person?

 

And you can never eliminate them if you can't find the courage to admit who they are. Every single time a Muslim, or group of Muslims commits a terrorist act, we have supposedly intelligent people parading to the TV cameras telling us that these acts do not represent Islam. Of course, we don't hear this from Muslims.