U.S.-Made Cluster Bomb Use by Saudis in Yemen

If Russia said they haven't used them, then they haven't used them. Our MSM lies. As one Intelligence agent said to Robert Parry when he was asked why they wouldn't tell the American people the truth now that they know for sure the airliner was shot down by the the Ukrainians and not the rebels: "Russia is close by, and they speak the language, but Propaganda (lies) is all we have".

 

It means nothing. All those who have caused one mess after another in the MENA nations, and reignited the Cold War in Eastern Europe believed themselves to be experts.

I realized their ignorance when they thought Russia was only bluffing with Crimea. ..They had no comprehension of how important Crimea is to Russia. ... not only as the cultural and religious foundation of Russia, but strategically as well in that it controls its Black Sea fleet and its newly formed Mediterranean fleet.

 

Big freaking deal, cluster bombs are Marine fighter jocks bombs of choice.

First they went after napalm bombs. Then it was cluster bombs. The left yelled racist and that it would be politically incorrect to use pork bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq. And those bombs didn't kill anyone.

 

You're missing the point. Saudis are deliberately targeting civilians with cluster bombs. No one has any objections using cluster bombs against radical jihadists somewhere in the open. But targeting densely populated civilian areas is outright criminal.

 

What do you expect, the Saudis are Muslims.

That's what Muslims do.

 

Interesting indeed.

If you truly are an expert in SE Asia history you wouldn't have used 'probably'. You would have been more positive with your statement. Now for your information, UXOs are the single greatest factor keeping the Lao subsistence farmer in poverty, therefore the entire nation as Laos is still a subsistence agricultural society. Savannakhet province, once the food bowl of Laos was mercilessly bombed by the American military because the Ho Chi Minh trails (yes there were more than one) ran through the southern part of Laos. Most other provinces have the same problem with UXOs. As the population grows and expands, farmers are hesitant to clear land for the fear of UXOs, greatly contributing to poverty. People today are still being killed and maimed by UXOs, especially cluster munitions.

So no, Communism wasn't the main cause of 'damage' to Lao society. But as a history teacher specialising in Cold War history, you would have known this.

 

As I explained, the US worked with the international court pre Bush and 9/11 and now works with it again with Obama. You can't have it both ways. You're either subject to international law or you're not. Criminals usually don't get to opt out of the law, and then back in whenever it suits them, so why should the US be able to do this? What's right for the citizens of a nation has to be right for their government too.

But to be fair, this hypocrisy is not limited to just the US. My own country are equally guilty of many unpleasant things as are many others - including (but not limited too) the provision of the necessary material for the production of chemical weapons as well as biological weapon cultures to Saddam back when he was flavour of the month in Washington, London and Bonn. Over the years there have been many such situations.

It's a case of one rule for the masters of the universe - who vastly profit from such trade - and another for those who they govern.

 

I appreciate your point of view. But, the United States is a sovereign nation, only beholden to its citizens(in theory). Choosing to cooperate with international bodies when it suits your agenda is nothing new.
Let me know when you find a nation that doesn't act in its best interest.

 

Of course targeting civilians is something Americans would never consider, right? Except for murderous goons like William Calley...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley

 

Saudi's gonna Saudi. Arab's gonna Arab. Muslim's gonna Muslim.

Got a problem with it? Go talk to them, see how far that gets you.

 

Your defensiveness is noted. Would you like some more examples of American's "gonna" or are you just going to point 'over there' again?
Here, knock yourself out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

 

I simply don't care. No nation on Earth spends as much on R&D on weapons designed to reduce collateral/civilian damage as we do.

Did Saudis buy cluster munitions? Guess so if they have them. They probably bought them here, like everyone else.

[video=youtube;QL_3Qg-SADY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_3Qg-SADY[/video]

You have a problem with what Saudis do with their weapons after they bought them? That's not my problem, matter of fact I'm fine with it.

 

Thanks. We appear to agree on the fact that the US should be answerable to it's citizens but really isn't any longer. Today, the US state is run by a tiny elite that doesn't give a damn for consensus or democracy - or for that matter what it's citizenry want. They do as they damned well please. This, of course, forms part of my overall argument about the US today, and is one of the reasons I regard it as a rogue state. Another poster on this forum recently pointed my attention that my use of the term rogue state was probably derived from the book of the same name authored by William Blum. You may be interested in reading it. There is a free .pdf available at this link: http://arcticbeacon.com/books/William_Blum-Rogue_State%282002%29.pdf, although I'm sure Mr. Blum would prefer people bought the book from his website HERE. That book will certainly inform you more deeply on these matters of international law breaches.

Meanwhile, I could list a number of nations, including my own, that do not act in the best interests of their citizens out of fear of reprisals from the US if they do not bend their knee in fealty.

 

Delightful prose.

I suppose on that basis America's gonna America.

Whatever that actually means...

 

How about cleaning up your own backyard before lecturing Americans.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/uk-arms-are-fuelling-saudi-arabias-war

 

I'd appreciate seeing some evidence backing your claim about that, because it sounds highly dubious to me?

 

Boo-Hoo, war in and of itself is illegal morally. Get over it.

 

The problem in South East Asia is we didn't drop enough. North Vietnam was forced to agree to a cease-fire from operation Line Backer, but our politicians screwed up the end game.

War is not for the weak of heart nor stomach. Go big or go home.

 

Or Gen. Andrew Spaatz, Commander of the 8th Air Force who fire bombed Dresden.

FYI:
Re: Lt. William Calley /My Lie incident

Don't know how old you were during the Vietnam War of who's side you were on but in 1970 most Americans opposed the court martial of Lt. Callie and supported him. If you are under 60 years of age it's very likely you were exposed and indoctrinated by PC revisionist history when it comes to the Vietnam War.

 

"Boo hoo" --- that's the whole intellectual thrust of your argument and you expect to be taken seriously? Oh boy.

 

Didn't lose. Didn't fight to win - there is a difference. I keep saying, if you don't fight to win, you lose. The country that destroyed Nazi Germany and forced unconditional surrender at the same time it destroyed Imperial Japan in a hemisphere wide war could easily have defeated Vietnam and destroyed it utterly. Dropping bombs on empty road junctions, restricting targets, no go and no pursuit tactics as Johnson (and later Nixon to some extent) did was based on politics not military tactics. General H R McMaster, the commander who won the battle of 73 Easting in the Gulf War wrote a book "Dereliction of Duty" on the subject. (McMaster, by the way is an actual combat commander, unlike the go along to get along PC bureaucrats that Obama has succeeded in installing in today's military. We are fortunate he has been appointed commander of TRADOC. )

Politicians chose to quit in Southeast Asia rather than fight to win. Fight to win and kill them until they surrender or don't start the fight.

 

Ignorace about the tactical effects and legality of cluster munitions is the mark of the armchair jingo who has neither the experience nor the imagination to understand what the effects of these weapons are years after the battle is over. It's all part of the tough-guy swagger which the consolation of the born loser. Pathetic.

 

Well, to begin with, I"m talking about the social and economic dependence of the Kingdom on petroleum exports and the rapidly grown strains apparent following the 2/3 drop in crude prices. Your proclamation that "KSA was never under British influence or any sort" makes me laugh. You are too young to remember Winston Churchill's famous banquet with the original King Saud, but surely you must have visited ARAMCO City when in the Kingdom. I well remember sipping martinis by the pool in those beautiful desert sunsets. Where do you think Saudi gets its weaponry, its medical technology and where does it send its royal kids for schooling? Some of your best friends are Saudi, doesn't that tell you something?

I wouldn't sell Iran short. The Persians had one of the world's greatest civilizations when the Bedouin Saudis principal activity was rustling goats.

 

It's the intellectual level that is in the same context of your understanding of war. War isn't pretty, it isn't kind, it isn't nice and neat.

It's akin a street fight between groups, there are no rules. To think otherwise is just ignorant.

 

That's why after wars end, military EOD teams are kept busy for decades. The first time I was in London in 1981 just down the street they discovered an unexploded German bomb, a left over from the German Blitz during 1941.

Not to many years ago in San Diego County a couple of children were blown up a block from their home just south of Poway, Ca. from an unexploded artillery round. The neighborhood where they lived use to be part of Camp Elliot during WW ll.