Part 35 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

If I can jump in to answer that, Gospel-writers Matthew and John were actual disciples, you can't get better street cred than that..
Mark was a friend of Jesus's right-hand man Peter, and Luke was a doctor and a friend of Paul who spoke with the risen Jesus.

 

So, you are saying your wiki link is better than my wiki link.

From your link:

A book is a set of written, printed, illustrated, or blank sheets, made of paper, parchment, or other materials, fastened together to hinge at one side, with text and/or images printed in ink. A single sheet within a book is a leaf, and each side of a leaf is a page. A set of text-filled or illustrated pages produced in electronic format is known as an electronic book, or e-book.
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I guess you, and the people who wrote your wiki link, don't consider The Iliad and The Odyssey to be books because the scrolls were not "fastened together to hinge at one side".

I guess you, and the people who wrote your wiki link, don't consider Sun Tzu's 512 BC The Art of War to be a book because the sets of sewn-together bamboo slats were not "fastened together to hinge at one side".

Then again, maybe you have a better reason for believing that The Iliad and The Odyssey and The Art of War should not be considered books. This time, instead of posting a link, let's hear it in your own words.

 

I stopped responding to your nonsense back when you continued rambling about Elvis instead of addressing questions. Bye, bye.

 

How long would a scroll have to be it it contained an 1,800 page modern book, such as the Bible?

 

You sound all shook up mate..

[video=youtube;4SbSk0mXSvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SbSk0mXSvE[/video]

 

Let's go back to the beginning of this discussion...

Oh. So now you want to define a book as something containing 1800 pages and being modern "such as the Bible".


If you believe that "Books didn't exist 2,000 years ago", please address...

 

I can answer that.

1. Neither 'Matthew' (or who wrote Matthew) nor John were there for the first 30 years of Jesus life. The story of Jesus birth is simply made from OT quotes taken out of context. Nor from eyewitness accounts.
2. All we have is 'witnesses' in Jesus life which I reckon involve about 3 months of Jesus life.

My own view having studied the times and religious practises is simply this.

From the age of 5 Jewish children - boys particularly - were taught to read and write as well as follow their fathers trade. By the age of 9 they should be well versed in the Torah, and by the time of their Bar Mitvah should know the Tanakh. It was the custom of some Rabbi's,- though this term actually comes later, so we'll used teacher - to take young students who had shown a good grasp of the Tanakh, and the ability to discuss intelligently its contents, and give them 'further education'. This fits in with the fact we are told that Jesus amazed the teachers in the Temple with his understanding. He would have been encouraged to study, put forward his own opinions and interpretations and progress further in the faith. The Teachers were not paid for doing this so it was part time, giving them breaks to earn money to support themselves. This also gave Jesus periods when he would help his father.
Jesus coming to his ministry at the age of 30 fits in with the Jewish belief of the time that a man was at his prime at that age.
The teacher/evangelist Jesus spent time 'evangelising' , with breaks at home with his parents. Probably earning money to support himself.
The disciples were witnesses only to a small part of Jesus life. And we are not told that every disciple followed Jesus to every recorded event. In fact we know they weren't. Luke 5:5.
The disciples had toiled all night. He prayed alone, was supposedly' tempted alone. Was alone with the woman of Samaria.

Really we know little about the life of Jesus.

 

Give us information on an event in you life, remember the details of what was said, that happened 40 yrs ago.
One will have to make things up to fill in the blanks from waiting so long to write anything down.
So, credibility is gone.

 

More consp theories!..
Incidentally you say in your profile that you're interested in 'OT studies'.
So tell us, which saves, the OT or Jesus?
And are you Jewish by any chance?

 

I can't speak for others but my memory is razor-sharp, and even if it wasn't, I'd never make anything up to fill in the blanks.
For example I can remember clear as a bell the headmaster calling me into his study 50 years ago to expel me with the words- "I think you'd be happier at another school"..
(For the record I hated the place and was glad to go)

 

Neither. In the OT man is responsible for his own sins. Rosh Hashanah, Book of Life, Days of Awe and Yom Kippur.
First day of Rosh Hashanah one asks forgiveness for sins. The Book of Life is opened and one's fate is prepared for the following year - but it is not sealed until the last day of Yom Kippur so thgings can change. During the Days of Awe one considers their life, settles any disputes with people etc and resolves to do better.

Jesus was just a Jewish teacher, raised to divinity by the extraction of verses and passage from the OT.

I've been through this with another poster. The OT is Jewish scriptures. Little to do with the NT. The fact that Jesus uses the OT is the fact thar he was a Jewish teacher, speaking to the Jews, excluding the Gentiles all the time - apart from when they approach him.
No, I'm not Jewish. English Agnostic.. Once a Christian preacher, Bible student/teacher and church leader. My extended family history goes back centuries.

 

Here, Preacher Brady uses a false dichotomy fallacy with a side salad of non-sequitur.

 

Wow there are two new ones on me there mate, you say Jesus doesn't save, and that he was concerned only with the Jews and not the world in general!
I think you'd better argue it out with him when you meet him..
Jesus said:- "I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world"(John 12:47)

PS- And if he was simply a Jewish teacher of the Old T as you claim, why did God send him to give us the New T?
People seemed to like it-
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6)
"Through Jesus we are saved,and not through Moses" (Acts 13:39)

 

Wow those big words had me diving for a dictionary..
"The more the words,the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)
At first I wasn't sure if it was a post or a klingon menu-

[video=youtube;HoOfjGqo5EY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoOfjGqo5EY[/video]

 

Jesus was very specific that he didn't come for the Gentiles.

Paul or one of his disciples wrote Hebrews.. Acts was written 130-150 AD.

 

1- Argue it out with him when you meet him..
Jesus said to his followers-"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.." (Matt 28:19)
2- And Paul went all round the eastern Mediterranean countries spreading the world.

 

That's where all the Jews were.. By the time Jesus was born most Jews lived out side Palestine... Alexandria, Elephantine Island, Damascus, Aleppo, and all around the Mediterranean..

I told you that the population of all of Palestine was less than 600,000.

 

Not surprisingly, Preacher Brady demonstrates he doesn't know what a false dichotomy or a non-sequitur are. Yet, he uses them frequently as part of his ministry. Fancy that.

 

Well Jesus is 2000 years dead.That might be difficult.
You believe what is written in the NT with all its stories, miracles etc. I see nothing about Jesus in the OT except extracts that Christianity has taken - mainly out of context - to present the Jewish preacher as a Divinely prophesied being.
Matthew has done this repeatedly in his Nativity Narrative.

EG.
Matthew says 'Herod's brutal action fulfilled what God had spoken through the prophet Jeremiah "A cry was heard in Ramah - weeping and great mourning. Rachel weeps for her children, refusing to be comforted, for they are dead'.
Jeremiah says 'A cry is heard in Ramah - deep anguish and bitter weeping - Rachel weeps for her children, refusing to be comforted - for her children are gone. (NOTE)But this is what the Lord says "Do not weep any longer, for I will reward you" says the Lord "Your children will come back to you from the distant land of the enemy . There is hope for your future" says the Lord "your children will come again to their own land."
And where were the Children (Israel)? In a foreign Land. No slaughtered children - no raising from the dead..

Matthew quotes Jesus coming out of Egypt. The OT does not say that. Matthew quotes Hosea 11. When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. As they called them, so they went from them: so they sacrificed unto Baalim............' I don't remember Jesus sacrificing to Baalim. Hosea is clearly referring to Israel coming from Egypt. Israel are often referred to as Jahweh child/ren and Jahwehs servant (singular) As when we refer to Britain to mean everyone.

Psalm 22 is often used, but anyone who has studied the life of David, as recorded in the OT, can clearly see that David has experienced terrible ups and downs in his life. Chased by Saul everywhere. His life in danger from others. His soul has been wounded time and again by his own family. His beloved son rebelled against him, and was killed against his wishes.
He has been cold and hungry, in danger of dying outside of Israel and being lost to Yahweh (who was limited to Israels borders in Jewish belief of the time).
The Hebrews used picture language and poetry to get their point over. This Psalm clearly shows David in deep distress. The fact Jesus uses the first part of verse one is simply down to his knowledge of the Psalms. You see the same ideas, thoughts, and often phrases, in other books like Jonah. Dividing the garments is probably something David had seen, even done, when victory over enemies meant plunder. See Genesis 14.

Matthew's genealogy is incomplete and includes Jeconiah, which precludes any king coming from him, and Luke's traces back to Adam -THROUGH NATHAN - not Solomon. Not the Messianic line. The real truth is that shortly after the exile there is a time of chaos through the Maccabean era, with many Hebrews leaving for distant lands, civil wars and finally the occupation of the Romans, it's almost certain these lists contain some gaps - errors - or are simply made up in this period.
Luke gets his Nativity story wrong in relation to what was required for a Roman census. No need for Jesus to be in Bethlehem. If Luke's story were true, Joseph and Mary would have encountered hundreds of thousands of other Jews making their way to Bethlehem. Not only would they not have got somewhere to stay, they wouldnt even have reached Bethlehem.

So I don't think God sent him to give us the NT. The Gospel writers misinterpreted the teacher and added to the story things to aid their claims. The preacher was crucified at the insistence of the Pharisees for whom he had become a nuisance. Even that's questionable when Jews did not believe in crucifixion as a means of punishment. Ag=fter all, this form of punishment was centuries old.


Not only is the NT full of errors but so is the OT when you study both against known history, culture and religion.

5000 - 4000 people get up in the morning and hear a rumour spreading through villages and cities that the preacher is over the water somewhere in the desert, so they all neglect their work and chores, take time off from their bosses and walk round the lake to find this man. And are fed with 5 loaves and 2 small fishes.

In the OT we have the King of Israel mustering an army of 800,000 men to fight the king of Judah who has 500,000 men. What a joke. That's more than the Population of Palestine of the time. 2,500,000+ Hebrews leaving Egypt in an Exodus. Hilarious.

Simply what was being taught. Like Islam teaches, and is believed by millions.

Luke 4:16-27. Quoted by Jesus from Isaiah 61 regarding events leading up to the Jewish Messianic age.

A lot of Prophesy is written after events and other prophesy is simply down to the reading of the times by astute 'prophets'. Other prophecies are simply the expression of the wishes of the community. Even Jesus could see the probable destruction of Jerusalem
by watching what was happening in Palestine with its 'false' messiahs, zealot/Sicarri actions against the Romans

 

Interesting what you said about David being afraid to die outside of Israel... The Egyptians were terrified of dying outside of Egypt.

 

If you were sent back in time 2,000 years ago you couldn't find what we classify today as a book if your life depended on it. Would you call a pile of clay tablets a book? A story written on a scroll is a scroll, it's not a book.

 

It's not. Did you read this before you put it up?

 

No were aren't. We are discussing whether or not they were written by Matthew,
Mark, Luke and John.

They were.

 

Can't you recognize the modern Greek alphabet from earlier Greek alphabets?

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And Jack Sprat wrote the Tarzan stories.

 

Who was your preschoolers, preschool teacher. How many kids did they have? What were there names