The free trade treaties within the EU are just protective trade tariffs for those countries outside of it. The British economy has done rather well inside the EU. It's the ludicrous Federation of Europe stance pushed by the French and Germans plus the acceptance of countries like Greece which fall well short of the economic standards required to join that have caused the problems.
Well its new ground, that what happens when you break new ground. No, we can walk away with no deal. I see no conflict of interest between our negotiators and the the British people so working behind closed doors without parliamentary scrutiny until the deal is done is fine for me. Far better than having 700-odd publicity-seeking narcissists crowding the space. There will be a vote to accept the proposed deal by your representatives. I have never worked out why Remainers insist only white people should work in the NHS. Is it because you don't want to be touched by a "ni##er"? The free movement of unskilled people from the EU means that we have to be tighter on skilled people from outside the EU. We have to decline 26 yo nurses from Kenya to make sure unemployed 58 yo wife beaters from Bulgaria can come here to drink. Why? Because they are from a white country and that's all you seem to care about. That would be a lot easier if the EU would cooperate. But re-working the trade deals is precisely the point of the exercise. UKIP has lost its raison d'etre. But that is because it succeeded in its goal.
Racism species likes only Football of America. Soccer is not for racist because they sieg hail to black players. Hockey is the best for Whites and orthodox then for Catholic it's Soccer for thus most victim are Catholic nations. For me it is Hockey and Soccer men's and Handball women and just Little Tennis. Have a Tennis school in 4 season Before I did end. One half german, one romanian, one Swede and me in Tennis school season 1999/2000. And 2000 I end Tennis. I remember now the country Watch in Sweden and my Town here is two good player in history. Cannot remember they names now.
Where did I suggest that immigrants should only come from the EU? I pointed out that immigration comes from both inside and outside the EU already and that it is a very necessary part of our economy and health service. You will have to do much better than that if you wish to get away with using strawman or SJW tactics on me. In fact you will have to prove you can debate honestly and not resort to insults for me to waste any more of my precious time talking to you.
Other than the need to recruit nurses or doctors from the EU the Brexit question had very little to do with the NHS at all which is why was so dishonest on both counts. By the way I never said the remain side was not full of dishonest claims as well, it's just that they didn't base their whole argument on two easily disprovable statements which Farage and BoJo admitted weren't true immediately they were challenged on them. The whole debate was appalling on both sides and the results were a vote of no confidence in the Tory government as much as they were any well thought out decision on whether to stay in or leave the EU.
Because they are the ones that led both campaigns and some intellectually challenged voters believe things that they say despite all the evidence proving that they lied. For example of the £350m per week paid to the EU £170m comes straight back in the form of subsidies and rebates.
The EU is a market-economy (even after Brexit) of almost twice as many consumers as the US. And nobody is forecasting the breakup of the US, are they? It's the economy that keeps the EU together and NOT the fractious politics. There is no common interest whatsoever to destroy an economic union that works and the Brits are going to learn that lesson the hard way ...
I agree with almost everything you have said here and would like to state that my position as a reluctant remainer is based on an approval of the common market we joined in the first place and a rejection of the recent desire for a political union ie the United States of Europe. I also think that our best chance of avoiding the federalisation of Europe was to stay and fight it from within. Now that we have voted to leave we have lost all power to resist a more federal Europe developing. It is a lose lose situation and very disappointing.
Actually yes, some people are forecasting the break up of the US and Farage himself is now in California promoting the argument for Calexit but it is less likely than the break up of the EU which would be a real possibility if Le Pen were to win the upcoming French elections and other nationalistic parties across Europe were to gain power.
So as long as the voters are all less mentally challenged than you... we'll be good. Right? Did you really think no one else worked it out? Really? Did you really think after 40 years of day in day out in/out debate that even a parrot could learn all the issues that it was only you that understood it. We voted out because it sucks, not because Nigel Farage is a mass hypnotist.
Oh I never suggested that only I was smart enough to understand the issues, I would never be that arrogant. I merely pointed out that many, many people didn't realise they were being lied to and that lots of people made up their minds based on factors which had little or nothing to do with being in the EU and more to do with blaming the scapegoat of EU membership on their own personal circumstances without realising that in many cases Brexit would make things worse. But I don't blame poorly informed voters purely because of their own laziness in learning this or their lack of intellect, I blame both sides of the campaign for encouraging such an appalling state of affairs to exist.
Well you would be wrong. http://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...pe-britain-and-nonsensical-eu-referendum.html
So only you and 45% of the population were smart enough. Uh huh. Too smart by half. That's why you aren't allowed to be in charge.
Le Pen, just like her father, is a protest vote. She will never ever be President of France. This recent nationalist "sprint" in the headlines across Europe was a result of the recent, longggggg recession. It was "the people" showing their revulsion at the economic morass of a major recession also spiked by massive migration from the Middle-east - nothing more, nothing less. When the rubber hits the road, however, the Dutch showed last week were real sentiments lie ... PS: Farage is an ass. He's enjoying his five-minutes in the sun. California will never ever separate from the US unless along the San Andreas fault ...
What's left of "Great" Britain will be knocking that the door of the EU in about five years time from the finalization of Brexit. There is no good reason to "fight federalization" given that a large market-economy has shown itself best as an anchor for satisfying people with a decent human condition in which to live and thrive ...
You miss my point about federalisation, what most people even many from the remain side don't want is legislation coming from Brussels rather than Westminster. I am happy to belong to a mutually beneficial trade block but I don't want some unelected Eurocrat deciding I need a health and safety course on how to go past the third rung of a ladder. I want a chance to approve or disapprove of employment legislation or civil rights or anything else. Federation or a United States of Europe is not what I signed up for. I am also not happy that the UK could become just Wales and England either but that's a different matter.
The legislation that specifies inter-EU governance comes from Strasbourg, not Brussels. The British parliament decides legislation internal to GB. The two can get along just fine - but Brits have been insularized for so long, they don't really understand the benefits. (The ones I have met here living in France are uniformly perplexed by Brexit. They think it is stoopid.) A few years of higher than necessary unemployment should fix that, however ...
Strasbourg/ Brussels either way it is not London and people feel they are having unwanted legislation pushed on them. I inherited a little house in Limousin when my Father died and most of the Brits I met were pensioners who really didn't keep up with much news past the price of red wine so I'm not surprised.
My question is outstanding: Why would Brexit adversely affect the recruitment of people from the EU, and what is the rationale for giving Europeans privileges over people from non-white countries with whom we have closer historic links? I do not believe the "whole argument" were those statements. I think the majority of people voted for controlled immigration and the ability to make free trade agreements outside the EU. I do know people who felt the annual fee was a rip-off, but I believe they felt the money should be spent in the UK generally, rather than specifically on the NHS. None of them would have a clue what £350mln a week would buy, compared to $170 a week. I mean, how much "more" NHS would that get you? The figures are so large that you could move them by a factor of 10 and noone would be able to tell you what the practical difference is. The critical point, which Remainers lost in the detail, was that some very large number is being paid across, ostensibly for access to a free market from which we are a net importer! I mean, they should be paying us, surely. Who pays for their competitors to compete with their own business? Unfortunately, nothing in democracy is well thought out.... that's for 5 year GosPlans and tyrannies.
I felt exactly the same way about Remain voters. They seemed to think the EU was this multi-national, hands-across-the-water nice guys convention and were completely oblivious to how, for instance, they beat up our developing country friends to hock their subsidized agri produce. The British Empire did a lot of bad stuff, but we got a grip on ourselves and weren't close to what those bastards did, and they still would do given the chance. People with fancy accents are not necessarily nice.
