As expected, China is not cooperating

After the Trump administration was trumpeting that China would help us rein in North Korea, I wrote this on May 30th.

Trump said, "North Korea has shown great disrespect for their neighbor, China, by shooting off yet another ballistic missile...but China is trying hard!"

That's a two part sentence and Trump was wrong in both parts.

China has been North Korea's ally since North Korea was founded 72 years ago. China is North Korea's major trading partner. 67 years ago Chinese forces attacked American forces in defense of North Korea. North Korea poses a threat to Japan, our strongest ally in Northeast Asia. North Korea wants a nuclear-tipped ICBM so it can hit the West Coast.

I continued.

Trump, Tillerson, Mattis, and others close to Trump keep saying China is "trying hard" to help the United States when it comes to China's ally, North Korea. They keep saying it, but they never give us the particulars. How is China helping us? No one in the Trump administration is saying. Which suggests China is not helping very much, and that appears closer to the truth, given the circumstances.

Later we learned China's embargo of North Korean coal was a ruse. China is buying materials from North Korea that is on the sanctions list. Trade between China and North Korea is up 34%. Trump had hoped that China would use trade and other measures to stop North Korea's provocative activities. That was not going to happen.

That was three weeks ago. What is happening now? The Trump administration is learning what I knew on May 30th. I will let Reuters tell it.

"The United States pressed China to exert more economic and diplomatic pressure on North Korea to help rein in its nuclear and missile programs during a round of high-level talks in Washington on Wednesday."

“We reiterated to China that they have a diplomatic responsibility to exert much greater economic and diplomatic pressure on the regime if they want to prevent further escalation in the region,” U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told reporters at a joint news conference with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis.

This is interesting. When is our secretary of state going to learn the U.S. is not in a position to tell China what their "diplomatic responsibilities" are? We must learn to deal with China as equals, and not from the standpoint of assumed superiority. The latter treatment prompts a good laugh from Chinese officials.

"Tillerson urged China to help crack down on illicit North Korean activities that fund its nuclear and missile programs, and said the Chinese had agreed their companies "should not do business" with sanctioned North Korean entities." Strange how we always hear what the Trump administration wants China to do but we never hear anything from China.

Now I get to the really interesting part.

President Donald Trump said Chinese efforts to use its leverage with Pyongyang had failed.

I want to laugh. To say that moronic, self-serving statement is presumptuous is an understatement. To say that statement reflects a profound lack of understanding of Sino/American relations is an understatement. To say that statement shows a remarkable ignorance of the relationship between the United States and China is an understatement.

Beyond that, I have no words.

 

"You and I, Mr. President, increased our mutual understanding and established a good working relationship," President Xi Jinping told Trump, when Trump called Xi on Tuesday night, a follow-up to their meeting at Mar-a-Lago.

Xi added that the two sides had "reached important consensuses" on key issues, and that China "is willing to communicate and coordinate" on the North Korean issue.

"I think we had a very good chemistry together," President Trump said of Xi at a press briefing Wednesday. "I think he wants to help us with North Korea."

Yeah, right, sure. I knew this wouldn't work, and I said so. Trump is extremely gullible.

 

"While I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out. At least I know China tried!" Trump wrote on Twitter.

Oh, really, China tried, Mr. President? In what way, Mr. President? You never explained that part of it. In the two and half months since you met Xi, you have given no details on how China was to suppose to help and we haven't heard a single word from China about how she will rein in her long time ally. It's been all talk and no substance.

This is all a figment of your imagination and a way to fool your base once again into thinking you are actually doing something.

 

Really, this is becoming hilarious. Trump's people are looking stupid. Is Trump ordering them to say this stuff? Tillerson and Mattis aren't stupid. they are good people. But Trump is a fool, and he is making his advisors look like fools, too.

The U.S. on Wednesday said that it and China has agreed to restrain companies from their two nations from doing businesses with North Korean entities now under United Nations sanction.

Once again, China said nothing. In fact, afterward, the Chinese representatives quickly left the venue. Their hasty departure also scuttled any joint press conference -- the usual practice after annual U.S.-China meetings held under the Strategic and Economic Dialogue framework. Nor was any joint statement issued, although the U.S. was willing to do so.

Trump is such an idiot.

 

I guess I did a good job of reporting Trump's futility in trying to get China to reject her ally's policies. No posts questioning my prescience.

Well, no news is good news, they say.

 

I don't doubt for a minute that the Chinese would love to deal with the North Korean problem.

I'm coming to believe that they don't have the means, and that's really bad news. For everybody.

 

Why?

North Korea is doing all it can to keep American troops away from the Yalu River, the border between N.K. and China. Why would China want to interfere with that effort?

Why would China do something the U.S. wants at the cost of a long-time ally?

Keep something in mind. Only American and South Korean sources are saying that China wants to de-nuclearize North Korea. China has never said that.

 

Well, you could explain what you think what Sino/American relations actually are as opposed to the Trump administration's understanding.

 

Do you monitor Chinese media and study their diplomatic statements? Is your Chinese really that good?

 

An influential state-backed Chinese newspaper said the best option for North Korea and its leader, Kim Jong-un, was to give up its nuclear programme, and China would protect it if it did.

"As soon as North Korea complies with China's declared advice and suspends nuclear activities ... China will actively work to protect the security of a denuclearised North Korean nation and regime," said an editorial in the Global Times, which is published by the Communist party's People's Daily.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...-halt-north-korea-threat-170413141010298.html

 

A few reasons. To begin, Xi can't afford to have Chinese-American relations sour at this vital juncture in his political career.

Further, the South Koreans are already quite inclined to work closely with the Chinese. With Korea unified it's likely that American troops would be politely asked to leave.

And putting American troops on the Yalu river would not be significantly different from having them where they are now. Troops on the Yalu river wouldn't be important, the planes in Japan are.

The North Koreans bring more American troops than they keep away.

Because we're a far more important ally. North Korea is becoming more a burden than a bargaining chip.

Of course they haven't said that. The question is, why would they not want to de-nuclearize North Korea? Indeed, a defensive pact with a non-nuclearized North Korea would be far more valuable than a defensive pact with a nuclearized North Korea, because the pact is less deterrent in that case.

The Chinese, like the Americans, want to be the ones with their fingers on that red button. We didn't like that the Europeans were nuclearizing, either.

 

What I think is what I hinted at in the OP. I said, "I will let Reuters tell it.

"The United States pressed China to exert more economic and diplomatic pressure on North Korea to help rein in its nuclear and missile programs during a round of high-level talks in Washington on Wednesday."

“We reiterated to China that they have a diplomatic responsibility to exert much greater economic and diplomatic pressure on the regime if they want to prevent further escalation in the region,” U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told reporters at a joint news conference with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis.

"This is interesting. When is our secretary of state going to learn the U.S. is not in a position to tell China what their "diplomatic responsibilities" are? We must learn to deal with China as equals, and not from the standpoint of assumed superiority. The latter treatment prompts a good laugh from Chinese officials."

We must keep in mind, in their part of the world, China is at the top of the food chain.

The U.S. has the largest economy, but China is second, with Japan a distant third.

China has the third largest military in the world behind the U.S. and Russia. She has an active force of around 2.5 million with nearly 3,000 aircraft and 700 ships to its name, China is a major force to be reckoned with.

We treat an enemy like that with respect. We don't tell her what her diplomatic responsibilities are. We don't press China to do anything. We sit around a negotiating table and work out arrangements that suit both sides equally well.

If this not done, we get nothing.

Which is exactly what we have gotten since this crisis began months ago.

 

In other words, you think it possible China is making great strides in reining in N.K. but she only tells her citizens that ... or nobody. She doesn't tell American negotiators that, and she doesn't tell the Western media about her great successes with N.K.

It's possible, I guess, but not very likely. More than likely she is not restricting a long-time ally because we want her to.

Also, N.K. is showing no signs of reining in anything. She recently tested again a solid fuel rocket engine that could be used in an ICBM. South Korean and American intelligence sources are hinting that she may test another nuclear device in the near future.

Maybe China is making progress, but she is keeping it away from the North Koreans, too.

 

"... said an editorial in the Global Times, which is published by the Communist party's People's Daily." And this comes to us via Al Jazeera. Well, okay.

This is an editorial in a newspaper, not from the Chinese government. In other words, the Chinese government remains mum on restraining N.K.

Also, your Al Jazeera said and I quote, "Military force cannot resolve tension over North Korea, China said on Thursday, while an influential Chinese newspaper urged the North to halt its nuclear programme in exchange for Chinese protection."

This is what the Chinese government said. "Military force cannot resolve the issue," Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told reporters in Beijing. "Amid challenge there is opportunity. Amid tensions we will also find a kind of opportunity to return to talks."

This was about the time Trump diverted the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier group towards the Korean peninsula, April 13th. So Wang was talking about restraining the U.S., not N.K.

 

You are right about Sino/American relations, but that is a two-edged sword. Trump can't afford to have those relations go sour, either. Which means, he should tread likely and not order the Chinese President around. Or try to, he'd just be laughed at.

You are right about South Korea, too.

Putting American troops along the Yalu was a euphemism for an American presence on the Korean Peninsula, North and South. Something China's ally is preventing. The last thing China wants is for N.K. to become a failed state. China has to support Kim, not control him. We need to understand that.

"The North Koreans bring more American troops than they keep away." Interesting point. I have to think about that one. However, since we are talking about China here, what is the alternative? A Korean Peninsula governed by Seoul? I don't think so. Great idea, but China would never buy it.

We aren't allies. China and the U.S. are trading partners and there is a lot of hubris and bad feelings in that relationship.

As far as China is concerned, you may be right about denuclearizing N.K., but the North Korean government is far from agreeing. I have seen no signs that China is pushing the issue. It may be that is what China wants, but she won't force denuclearization. Maybe that will change if Trump and his team treat Xi and his team as equals instead of trying to order them around.

But Trump will never learn that. He is no diplomat. He is used ordering people around. In foreign relations, Trump is the archetype of the bull in a china closet.

 

Plus China can use NK as a wonderful distraction from what it is doing in the South China Seas

 

So you're rooting for a devastating war with North Korea, because you think it would make Trump look bad. Got it.

You got issues.

 

When the US gave China the "green-light" to invade India during the 1971 Pakistani-Indian War, do you think the US envisioned an India governed or occupied by China?

The US can certainly get the "green-light" from China to attack North Korea, provided the US occupies North Korea only until a new government is chosen or under any other conditions the US and China agree upon.

Reuniting North Korea with South Korea would be incredibly stupid. German reunification cost more than 2 TRILLION Euros. An attempt at reuniting the two Koreas would only bankrupt South Korea and disrupt its economy. Perhaps once the Kim regime is removed from power, the two Koreas can consider reuniting after 50-100 years -- the amount of time it would take North Korea to achieve any semblance of parity with the South.

 

So instead of patting yourself on the back, what about offering potential solutions.

 

I seem to recall you thinking China was going to honor its Paris Accord commitments in another conversation too, so your prescience remains to be demonstrated.

 

China would not be interfering with NK staying between American troops and the border. It's just my opinion, but my belief is that if the U.S. ever decided to deal with the NK nuclear threat using the military option, it would not be by a ground invasion. I don't think the American people or our government officials want to physically occupy NK.

Why should it cost them a long-time ally? I can think of numerous scenarios whereby NK's nuclear threat is eliminated, while NK remains separate from SK and within China's sphere of influence.

Well there is this ....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-u-...rsible-korean-denuclearization-082243122.html

 

Excellent point.

 

What a totally moronic statement to make. I am assuming you voted for Trump.

GEEZ!

 

Um, I'm at a loss for words.

 

Who are you addressing? Do you know how to use the quote function? That way we know who you are talking to. At the end of each post, at the bottom on the far right, click on "reply." That way you are quoting the person you wish to reply to and everybody is happy.

I didn't see anyone patting themselves on the back. I saw posts concerning China, the U.S., and North Korea.