Missiles Launched From Iran Hit ISIS Terrorist Bases in Syria

LOL at post 474!

To be sure, Jews have played a role disproportionate to their numbers in western civilization. And, of course, with western civilization surpassing the civilizations of the middle east in the past few centuries, and with many Jews living within that civilization, their input and contributions to that civilization would surpass that of "Muslims". None of that has anything to do with what I wrote about Israel. Far more relevant, in fact, is looking at history to see how long have the Jews been able to maintain an independent existence. They have lasted 70 years and might last another 30 or so years. But I don't see Israel surviving beyond that, unless it dramatically changes its posture.

Iran, by contrast, has been around for thousands of years. For many of those years, Iran has ruled this region or major parts of it. In the process, Iran's contributions to various civilizations has been more profound and lasting than anything anyone else can claim. Even Jewish identity and new Judaism is itself a product of Persian influences.

 

You don't see Israel surviving another 30 years? What 'posture' should they change in order to satisfy the Iranians?

Yes, Jews have contributed a great more to the betterment of western civilization, and human advancement, then have 'Muslims'. Or Persians for that matter. Had Iran not been conquered by Islamists they may have been a great nation. As it is they lag behind other nations and are more closely identified to the Third World rather than the First..Government control of information is apparent in your posts.

 

That is not founded on any reality, since no other nuclear powers have....

 

Go Iran!

Look, Iran is no angel, but ISIS are child raping, cannibalistic barbarians. I'll cheer anyone bombing them.

 

If Iraq can hit Israel with their scud missiles that arent even lazer guided, and Hamas with their semi home made crap, than how do you think Iran will do?

 

I wouldn't mind Iran hitting Al Nusra.

favorite Al Queda terrorist group.

When it comes to Al Queda,

should not play favorites!
Nor Israel. ​

 

I hope you carefully read this message. And then ask more questions, instead of pretending you know things you just don't.

Iran's history, whether pre Islamic, or after Islam, is almost unparalleled in its contributions to human civilization. However, it is true that all the civilizations outside those of the west suffered a relative decline compared to western civilization for several centuries beginning from the 18th century or thereabouts. From the narrow perspective of the past few centuries, all those nations that contributed to the development of western civilization, had a greater impact than all those who fell outside of that civilization. But, overall, Iran is sui generis. Something your posts show you totally lack any understanding of. Iran is to Eastern civilization generally, and middle eastern civilization in particular, what ancient Greece, Rome, and Europe from the renaissance, all combined, are to western civilization and then some!

Iran is one of the few nations on earth that has had a continuous history dating back for several millennia, conscious of its separate identity and contributing not just to the civilizations around it but having a civilization of its own. In this regard, the greatest thinkers of Muslim world during the Golden Age of Islam, thinkers whose works in philosophy, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, chemistry, and many other fields helped spur the renaissance in Europe, were Persian. Scholars known in the west as Avicenna, Rhazes, Ghazzali, Kharazmi, Al Farabi, Omar Khayyam, and countless others. For Iranian civilization, to the names of these scholars one must add the names of those who made Persian literature and poetry the artistic and administrative linga franca of the Islamic world. People like the 10th century Persian poet Ferdowsi whose epic the Shahnmaeh (or Book of Kings) in 60,000 couplets reminded Iran and Iranians of their particular history and not only gave us great stories like that of Rostam and Sohrab, but who declared that "if Iran isn't I am not either" and not with humility mentioned that he had, with his Persian, brought to life again the ajam, the derogatory name used by Arabs for Persians. Poets like Hafez, Rumi, Saadi and others whose works, as Hafez wrote to describe one of his poems to indicate its wider influence outside of Iran, would make the parrots of Bengal break sugar. The great works and the great achievement of this Irano-Islamic civilization, a civilization that was at the cornerstone of all the subsequent major empires in the Islamic world (the Seljuks, the Ottomans, the Mughals etc), all of whom are considered Persianate for that reason, are accessible, understandable, and powerful enough that even after the passage of a thousand years or more from their works, they are still a living part of Persian culture, with Persians even in remote villages, even those without much formal education, can recite and recount these poems. Within Iran, the exemplar of that great Persian civilization and culture, in terms of arts and architecture, is the Safavid capital at Esfahan, known as "nesf Jahan" (or half of the world). I will post pictures of what I have posted before on the issue to give you and like minded people a sense of that grand civilization and culture.

In the meantime, however, your assertion that Iran declined after the Arab conquest is (whether you know it or not), influenced by the works of Aryan supremacists like the founder of that ideology, Come de Gobineau, who was France's ambassador to Iran and an avid Iranophile, and who wrote the work called On the Inequality of Human Races. In the conception of these Aryan supremacists, the rise of civilization everywhere was the product of Aryan genius. Except they tried to use what would be considered psuedo science, to make Aryan, which is simply another cognate for Iranian, to mean an imaginary Nordic race! Gobineau, for instance, traced the influence of these Iranians (aka Aryans), some real and some imagined, in the rise and growth of human civilization, including as it related to the Golden Age of Islam, and then postulated that the mixture of Aryan and Semitic races (which in the pseudo science of Gobineau and his contemporaries, confusing language with race, would include Arabs and Jews) would lead to the decline of the former. Iran, where he was living in the 19th century, was an influential example of this in his mind. The guy wasn't really a racist, as his treatment of Iran and Persians would attest, but he simply found the wrong answer to the wrong question. If Iran declined for a few centuries relative to the west, the reasons for it can easily be explained without resort to such nonsensical theories. The same way Iran's rise, like so often in the past, can easily be predicted too.

Here are a few pictures focused on just Isfahan and its examples of Irano-Islamic architecture, among hundreds if not thousands, I can post from all across Iran which include such other historic cities like Shiraz, Yazd, Kashan, and others from Iran's post Islamic history. Add to it the remaining monuments from Iran's pre Islamic empires, of the Achaemenids, the Parthians, and the Sassanids, and you might get a sense of the kind of culture and country you are simply left ignorant about.

 

Actually, the time limit for editing my post has lapsed, but I need to make a slight correction in what I said about Gobineau. While Aryan supremacists of the Nazi ilk took his ideas to develop their anti-Semitic ideology, Gobineau himself - while a pseudo Iranophile who proposed the idea that the mixture of Aryan and Semitic races leads to the decline of civilization-- wasn't anti-Jewish either. Far from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Inequality_of_the_Human_Races

In the meantime, this story helps bring together a few things about the issues being discussed. This is a small footnote in a much larger history that shows Iran saving the Jews from captivity under Cyrus and giving birth to a new Jewish identity and a new Judaism through emissaries such as Ezra and Nehemiah.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16190541

Nor did Sardari just save Iranian Jews.

 

The man was a hero, no doubt about that, but his story did not have the happy ending he deserved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdol_Hossein_Sardari

That raises the question of why the Iranian government turned their backs on Sardari and whether these charges of 'embezzlement' were true. Helping Jews may not have been high on the list of priorities for the Iranian government or that of the Ayatollah Khomeini, though he was certainly honored by the Jewish community during that time. This tells me also that he helped these people despite his Islamic teachings, not because of them.

And that's the problem with Theocracies. We can look at Iran's glorious past, particularly in architecture from a western perspective, but governments based on the often contradictory and centuries old religious teachings, often interpreted by fanatics of one stripe or another, do not lead to stability for the country, its people, or their neighbors.

The world we live in must deal with the Iran of today and, despite your obvious pride in your county's past, and with good reason, that matters little in the contemporary world in which we all find ourselves today..

 

Those photos were very impressive and I've always been impressed by their architecture and their obvious influence on the western world. It influenced me in a structure I built, though far less lavish!

But none of this answered the questions asked of "You don't see Israel surviving another 30 years? What 'posture' should they change in order to satisfy the Iranians?'

Can you offer ideological support or some other evidence for these claims?

 

The charges faced by Sardari relate to things predating the Iranian revolution by decades and have nothing to do with the events following the revolution and were not in any way motivated or related to any reaction to what he did to save some Jews from Nazi persecution. In any case, I posted the story of this Iranian diplomat for another reason. To make you appreciate that even in war torn Nazi Germany, an Iranian diplomat had the ability to do the things he did, because ultimately the underlying theory of "Aryan supremacy" - based on a mixture of fiction trying to connect people of Nordic ancestry with the achievements, both historical and some which were claimed with less historical authority of the Iranian people - itself should give you a clue about the extent of Iranian influence over the development of human civilization. Even stripped of all of its fantasies and pseudo science, the influence of the Iranian people in all of the world's major civilizations is undeniable. The explanation of that influence, already burdened by pseudo terminology and false associations, unfortunately, got mixed up with events and a hateful ideology alien the Persian spirit, that subsequently made it something that is far less understood by the average westerner. Otherwise, not only Islamic civilization (whose major achievements during the Golden Age of Iran carry the unmistakable Persian imprint), but also Chinese civilization, Indian civilization, Jewish identity and new Judaism, and pre-enlightenment western civilization, are all heavily indebted to Iran and Iranian contributions. This book, for instance, addresses Iranian influence on all the world's major religions, but in fact it touches on much more. Iran's influence on all the world's major civilizations.



https://www.quora.com/Iranian-History-How-did-Iran-influence-the-culture-of-China

On the other hand, Iranian influence on everything that is considered notable in Indian civilization, is overwhelming and undeniable. The Muslim, Mughal empire (builders of Taj Mahal, which itself shows Persian influences and was by Persian architects), in India is considered Persianate as were its contemporaries, not just the Safavid empire in Iran, but also their enemies the Ottoman empire. And the Vedas are essentially an Iranian script and cultural scripture brought by the Iranians (aka Aryans) to an India which was inhabited by various people, most prominently the Dravidians. The Delhi Times perhaps summarizes this influence well in quoting one of modern ndia's founders, Nehru:
http://www.newdelhitimes.com/similarities-between-india-and-iran123/

As for the Jews, I will have to write a book about it! It simply impossible to properly understand Jewish identity, and new Judaism, without understanding how all of it was basically the product of Persian influences. The real story, however, requires that you separate religious beliefs and reliance on the Old Testament and instead of understanding issues from reading scripture, to understand them from the perspective of Persian imperial policy. Cyrus wasn't the "lord anointed" in the old testament merely because he freed the Jews. He was the "lord anointed" because the scripture at issue was written under Persian influences by prophets who were also Persian emissaries sent to put an end to Jewish squabbles in the area. They did so by trying to make sure that the inhabitants were ready to obey the "laws of the Persian and the Medes", by ending those squabbles by establishing new Judaism through the works of Ezra and Nehemiah, and by even coming up with a new (and lasting) definition of who were real Jews and who weren't. A definition that allowed Jewish identity to be formed in a much more lasting way and make the Jews, not just a religious group, but an ethnic tribe of sorts.

As for western civilization, its religious beliefs aside (all influenced by Iranian traditions and thinking mixed in with the old religious traditions of the Jews and others), and while undoubtedly the works of the ancient Greeks (themselves translated and passed to Europe again through the works of Persian Muslim scholars such as Avicenna and Al Farabi, as well a few non Persian Muslims such as the Spanish Averroes) played a huge role in the European renaissance, you also had the influence of Persian scholars in all the facets of learning in mathematics, medicine, astrology, and philosophy. In fact, while you might miss my point again, it is ironic that the foundations of Sunni Islamic fundamentalism were laid down by a brilliant Persian scholar, Al Ghazzali, who worked mightily to undercut the influence of two other Persian philosophers, Avicenna and Al Farabi, and who in the process anticipated Rene Descartes and David Humes who would follow him by centuries. So much so that, as the Guardian notes, if westerners were better familiar with Ghazzali, they would charge Descartes for plagiarism when he said: "I think, therefore I am". Ghazzali, who went through a skeptical period before laying down the foundations for a strict adherence to scripture and worked in some ways against the influence of his fellow Persian thinkers on Islamic philosophy as well as the influence of the Greek masters, Plato, Aristotle and Socrates, was nonetheless one of the most influential thinkers in not only Sunni Islam, but beyond.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2015/04/islam-philosophy-and-west
A millennium-old argument
Blaming the problems of Islamic education on one great thinker is a bit uneducated

 

I addressed all of that in my original message, before you tried to take the message and turn it into a pissing contest between Jews and Persians and Muslims more generally. Not realizing, of course, that you are comparing apples (never mind, these apples - the Jews - were in fact in many ways themselves seeded by Iran), with oranges!

 

Sonny, Israel will LONG outlast the fake, terrorist, diseased, cancerous khameini regime. The date of an american attack to destroy the regime is not far off, and when that occurs - I and most of the world will REJOICE.

Not long after the country of iran will fall apart; it is already doing so - running out of water, huge drug problem, millions of minorities who want to form their own autonomous regions, iran is utterly screwed. Keep spouting propaganda for khameini, and making everyone laugh.

 

iran is helping assad use sarin gas and indiscriminmately drop barrel bombs on women and children, you think that's better? iran has supported militias which have stabbed and shot toddlers in places like Houla and Baniyas, you think that is better? iran is the absolute scum of the earth, there is no one worse on earth.

 

iran has tens of millions of youth, and no jobs. If the West stopped taking in iranians, the country would explode about an hour later. Then there is the decreasing water supply - iran is going to run out of water soon. Couldn't happen to a better, more deserving sh-thole.

 

How about we get iranians the f--k out of syria and iraq, so all those refugees can return to iraq and syria?

 

I have tried to understand "jimmy rivers" and his obsessive hatred of Iran, and his parroting of far right Israeli propaganda, put in the context of his vague claims about his background. I have come to conclude the following relates to explains his background.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army
South Lebanon Army

 

The South Lebanese Army members weren't merely traitors and criminals hated by their fellow Lebanese, they were not particularly bright in picking the winning side either

http://www.aljazeera.com/focus/2010/05/201051992011673189.html
26 MAY 2010

 

I've begun sharing the same suspicions. There seems to be a set response to all posts.

 

Better than what?

*If* Iran is doing all that (sources?) it doesnt change the fact that Dead ISIS = Good. Im not advocating that we support Iran... but when they blow up child raping barbarians that eat people for a morale boost, they deserve a kudos for doing so.

Sidenote- we employ police officers that occasionally murder children, and we've cluster bombed more than one wedding in recent history. Are we the 'scum of the earth'?

 

Yoh “IrMon” you don’t try to understand a HATE filled bag of GARBAGE
You flush it away - You only have-to look at his Avatar in order to perceive where
................................................................................... .......... this guy is coming from


Fact is, for all his HATE mongering about Iran & all his bloviating about terrorists
........................ it is Israel who supports ISIS - & it is Iran who opposes them



Alliance of Convenience: Israel Supports Syria’s ISIS Terror Group
http://www.globalresearch.ca/alliance-of-convenience-israel-supports-syrias-isis-terror-group/5587203

From the Article:
" In June 2015, the Times of Israel quoted former Israeli defense minister Moshe Ya’alon, saying :
“We’ve assisted (anti-government terrorist groups in Syria on) two conditions. That they don’t get too close to
(Israel’s) border, and…don’t touch the Druze.” Israel provides hospital treatment for hundreds, maybe thousands,
of terrorist fighters, calling it “humanitarian assistance,” according to Ya’alon, adding it’s “not in their interest” to
publicize Israeli aid – including weapons and munitions supplied, along with Israeli air strikes, .........."


.

 

You seem confused.

 

Hate breeds Confusion

 

A couple of great posts,interesting reading, and something to do a little research on. I would think the majority of anti - Iranian sentiment was the storming of the American Embassy in 1979 and holding the 52 employees that worked there hostage for 444 days. The hate seen on TV with the chants "death to America" stirs up a lot of anti-Iranian feelings. I also agree that the CIA, Britain and Russia colluded to overthrow the Iranian government to protect their oil interests in 1953 or 1954. There was a lot of reason for anti - American sentiment with the installation of the Shah . I don't see much chance of repairing relations as long as Khomeini is around. At one time our countries were great allies. I know a few Iranians in the states and they are very cordial people. Again Great Post.

 

Ruhollah Khomeini leader of the Iranian Revolution
has been DEAD since June 3rd 1989 fer Christ's sake
perhaps you mean - Supreme Leader Ali Kahmenei

anyway
The only reason Iran has a Theocratic core to its Government now
Is because the US installed Shah murdered all secular opposition


Iran has repeatedly attempted rapprochement, all to no avail
.................. US Neo-Cons & Israeli Zionists will not allow it