Germany military leader in Europe!

Nonsense!

Not a single person is in jail for criticizing Merkels politic.

 

I didn't say criticizing Merkel.

Thousands are in German jails for political speech crimes.

 

Please post a source.

 

Here's just one example in which an individual was even extradited from another country for "Thought / Speech crimes"

"Holocaust denier extradited to Germany for prison term"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/holocaust-denier-extradited-to-germany-for-prison-term/

EXCERPT "The Nuremberg-Fuerth prosecutor’s office said Wednesday that 54-year-old Gerhard Ittner was flown to Germany on Tuesday and will begin serving his 33-month sentence for slander, racial hatred and other crimes.

Ittner was convicted in 2005, but fled before he could be imprisoned. He was captured by Portuguese authorities in April and has been in custody there since then.

Bavarian officials say the one-time member of the now-defunct German People’s Union party was a known Holocaust denier who used the Internet to spread far-right propaganda between 2002 and 2004."CONTINUED

 

You sure can name a single one of those?

 

He got a jail sentence because his support and active organisation of a terror organisation called NSU, which murdered 12 people, including a police officer.

 

But was he imprisoned for something he did or something he said?

 

He was imprisoned for buying the weapon used to kill the police officer.

My mercy for a cop killer is rather small

 

RE:

Mine too. But there are thousands of Germans in jail for "Speech Crimes" i.e. "Holocaust denial" such as Ursula Haverbeck, aren't there?

Fortunately, the US doesn't have such obscene laws......yet.

 

The USA has far more obscene laws. People are imprisoned there for laughable things like selling Kinder Choclate eggs.

Guantanamo is also an abomination. Haverbeck at least got a judge deciding. In Guantanao end children aged 14 without any court appeal. Thanks god we dont have such obscene laws in Germany

 

I didn't even know what a Kinder Egg was until looking it up & I certainly don't support Guantanamo so I agree that the US has some obscene laws but at least we can discuss the holocaust etc without being imprisoned.
Are you even allowed to complain about laws against holocaust denial?

 

Why should i denie a historic fact as the Holocaust? Someone who does that is mental il and belongs into custody.

You must understand one thing.

We are Germans. We dont want be americans. We see your justice system as ridicolous and laughable at best. One of the reasons why Germans are extremly critical towards USA.

I would move even further. And order prison for anyone who insults Germany or our flag.

Btw you cant even drive 200 mph on your highways. You imprison people for just driving fast. In Germany we have no speed limit on the Autobahn

 

I know about the Autobahns etc as I lived, worked & studied in Germany. It's a beautiful country & you have good reason to be proud of it.
I'm simply a strong supporter of free speech.
My question was, IF you didn't believe in the holocaust, could you complain about the law that prohibits you from discussing it.
Don't answer if it would get you in trouble.

 

And im a strong supporter of free speed.

You can complain about any law in Germany. You can go into politics and change it. This is Germany, not USA where you end like Kennedy

 

I'm not surprised that a Holocaust denier (you) would use two cases of other Holocaust deniers to try to make a point. I was literally counting the seconds til you would use Ursula Haverbeck as an example for your argument. That's very predictable and not convincing at all. It's the same old rhetoric over and over again. 'You cannot discuss the Holocaust in Germany (deny and discuss are two different things), there is no free speech, it's a Stasi - Gestapo country, etc.'
On the other hand, you're asking questions regarding said law that show you're not really familiar with it or maybe you're pretending to be clueless. Your example Gerhard Ittner is not even remotely the innocent victim that you either think he is or try to portray him as. He calls himself a "genuine Nazi", my sympathy for such a person is extremely limited. Either you're not really familiar with his case or you are and deliberatly use him as an example.
In addition, this is one case, but you (and that other rather ill-informed user) claimed 'thousands', that would be at least 2,000 in my book. Where are the other 1,998?
We had this debate before, in case you remember, and I'm not really interested in discussing the Holocaust here again. It's a historical fact and denying it is something for the politically blinded. You may disagree.
There are laws (in one form or another) regarding Holocaust denial in Germany, Belgium, France, Poland, Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal and some more.
If you don't like these laws, fine. There are laws in the US that I consider complete insanity, so what?
If you repeatedly (!) deny the Holocaust in public or in the media, you will get into trouble in Germany. If I, here and now, said, "I don't think the Holocaust ever happened", no one would give a rat's ass (the government is not spying on my postings here).
So, if you have reliable sources for the claim that "thousands are jailed in Germany", please post them.

 

You make a lot of time consuming assumptions based on my discussion with another Poster in which I was simply asking him questions about the "Third Rail" of debate.
No I did not know the extenuating circumstances Re: G. Ittner and could not find a source citing the number of Germans in jail for "Speech Crimes" so I don't know how many Germans are in jail for "holocaust denial".
In my opinion, one is too many because anything so replete with fraud(1),(2) & crass exploitation that cannot withstand the sunlight of open & honest scrutiny forfeits the right to any credibility. Why is the profit driven "Holocaust Industry" so fearful of honest questioning to the point of ruining the lives of questioners?
There's no doubt that gypsies, Jews etc suffered horrific persecution during the 1900s as did countless innocent German during post WW1 & post WW2. I simply don't think that a group's suffering is any more profound because of their religion, nationality, ethnicity etc.
Yes, I know that there a shocking number of countries (16) that have similar speech crimes but I don't know how many Germans are in jail for "holocaust denial". That's what I was trying to find out.



(1) "Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

EXCERPT "Sadly, Corry’s tale is part of a growing problem within the publishing industry, which is selling to the public a growing number of ‘memoirs’ about the Holocaust and World War II that should really belong on the shelves marked ‘fiction’."CONTINUED


(2) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

EXCERPT "Writing to the Claims Conference’s board last week, recently terminated ombudsman Shmuel Hollander asserted that, while reports had said organizational insiders had siphoned off $57 million in German taxpayer funds meant for survivors, “the final sum is in all probability much higher.”CONTINUED

 

So at the very least you are a Holocaust minimizer, if not denier.
Calling Genocide.... "persecution."
LOFL
You post anti-Jooo Conspiracy Crap wherever you can you can sneak it in.
and make no Mistake, this is NOT 'anti-Zionist'/anti-Israel', it's WHY you are.

That's NOT believable, or Incredibly INEPT.
The Wiki Entry for Holocaust Denial has the 16 Countries AND the Convictions.

I just Googled YOUR Words exactly! ! !
"how many Germans are in jail for "holocaust denial"
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+Germans+are+in+jail+for+"holocaust+denial"&oq=how+many+Germans+are+in+jail+for+"holocaust+denial"&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

FIRST up is the Wiki entry
"Laws Against Holocaust Denial"
within is 'Prosecutions and Convictions'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Prosecutions_and_convictions

7 Germans have beeen convicted over the years, NONE are in Jail now.
NO ONE is in Jail now for it. according to the entry.

That was SO difficult!
It took me 5 SECONDS.
You find every piece of conspiracy crap, from every black corner of the internet, and you never saw/"Couldn't find" the Wiki 'Holocaust Law' entry!? ?!

Finding a few people who Abused the Holocaust does NOT invalidate it.
No more than finding a few Planted Fossils or false assertions, "Refutes" Evolution.

The Usual Salacious anti-Joo 'stuff'. No 'Zionists' or 'Israel' here you claim is your only beef with Jews.

Kosher Slaughter Also was NOT about Zionists/Israel.
It was about JOOOOOOS.

Outed again.
+

 

No, but you can use common sense.

If the US had a 42% turn out and the Democrats or the Republicans had refused even to take part In the election...
You wouldn't assume that this election result was going to be representative of the public will.

And this was not an election. They were not electing a representative. They are representing themselves directly.

So when the numbers clearly indicate that the majority of public will is pro independence. Then go for it.
Right now they do not. They are very disputable indeed.

 

Every nation has its share of extreme right wing followers and Germany is no exception, but Germany has twice in the last century been the instigators of two world wide wars and has lost both, incurring a tremendous loss of life, occupation by other nations and wholesale destruction of their towns and cities etc.

When you add to that the years of recovering from the terrible stigma left by the holocaust and other numerous atrocities committed in their name by their parents and grandparents, you can understand why the vast majority view the dream of a forth Reich as totally abhorrent.

The present day Germany enjoys a strong economy and a good standard of living, why would they risk all that for another WW3?

 

UP LATE & FULL OF HATE

Do you think that your drunken & slanderous tantrums have any effect on me, what I write or the sources I Post? If anything, they inspire me to write more.

Any sober & rational person knows by now that I write on a variety of topics.

Additionally, my opposition as far as "JOOOOOS" go is limited to the Right Wing Zionists who conspired with the Nazis, meddle in US Foreign policy,(1) drag the US into wars for Israel & persecute/slaughter Palestine's Native Residents.

You can't cite a single post in which I have slandered the Jewish people.

Kosher Slaughter was more about animal cruelty than Jews. Maybe you'll see that when you sober up.


Flushed again.



Maybe you've seen this somewhere before:
(1) “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

 

My post was anything but "Drunken and slanderous."
I Cut you to Ribbons, as always.
Which is Why you had to "edit" OUT most of my post which showed just how Laughable yours was.

In fact, I GUTTED you so bad, you (kinda) responded after giving up previous, when you had NO reply to my Destruction of your BS.
NO Answer as to why you couldn't find a Simple Fact. Or so you claimed.

You are a Holocaust Denier. "Holohoax" "®" "Holcaust Industry" as you call it here and everywhere.
That IS anti-semitism.

There is NO string in which will not Sneak in your OFF topic anti-semitica and Conspiracy Crap. (anti-semitic 'VeteransToday' and a HUNDRED more)

"German" threads: The "HoloHoax®"
Any threads: it's the "Holocaust Industry"
Iran ones: It's really Israel.
Kosher Slaughter: SUDDENLY you're an animal rights activist! AND it leads to Violent behavior in the Slaughterer.
STUFFED by me.​

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...s-activists-say.516046/page-7#post-1068122239

NO answer by Grau's to my Debunking of Ridiculous charge about JEWS. Not Israel/Zios.

Yes!
As could easily be PREDICTED:
You've posted it Umpteen times on This board Alone.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1163&bih=538&ei=Va70WdC2OYfOmwHW96LACw&q="howard+kohr;"+"grau"+site:www.politicalforum.com&oq="howard+kohr;"+"grau"+site:www.politicalforum.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...12686.12686.0.12911.1.1.0.0.0.0.79.79.1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.fd9KCp59zBM

Including OFF topic in Threads like
"Barcelona Van Attack"!
"Get your facts about Muslims"!
and THIS one.

You put JOOOOOS/Zios/Israel in any and every topic.
And you use/ABUSE EVERY post to do another Gratuitous anti-Jooo Link Dump, including just above.

Outed #827.
+

 

Re

I think that it's an oversimplification to say that Germany instigated 2 World Wars. Many historians consider WW1 & WW2 as one long war with a brief cooling off period.
Meanwhile the draconian conditions of the Treaty of Versailles were so severe as was the post WW1 plunder by the Allied Powers that they guaranteed a second World War.
At any rate the causes of WW1 are best summarized below:

"Causes of World War I"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I

EXCERPT "This crisis was triggered by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by an ethnic Serb who had been supported by a nationalist organization in Serbia.[4] The crisis escalated as the conflict between Austria-Hungary and Serbia came to involve Russia, Germany, France, and ultimately Belgium and Great Britain. Other factors that came into play during the diplomatic crisis that preceded the war included misperceptions of intent (e.g., the German belief that Britain would remain neutral), fatalism that war was inevitable, and the speed of the crisis, which was exacerbated by delays and misunderstandings in diplomatic communications."CONTINUED

 

Because I ignore and / or edit your demented & slanderous lies doesn't mean that they have any merit

Go obsess over someone else, you bore me.

 

It wasn’t my intention to explain the origins of the two world wars in the last century, to do so would be off topic. However there is no question that Germany in 1914 were the aggressors in the main theatre of war in the west. They declared war on France and Belgium, not the other way around. Britain, who were the guarantor of Belgium’s neutrality, declared war only when that guarantee was broken by Germany’s attack on that small country.

As for WW2 there can be no question either on Germany’s aggression.

 

Given some of the slanderous lies & off topic personal attacks Posted here, I don't think that discussing Germany's role in wars of the 1900s is significantly off topic.
Germany was drawn into WW1 with reluctance because it was honoring its agreement with Austria-Hungary in a complex system of alliances much like NATO when one country is attacked, others are honor bound to defend it. The dominos began to fall with the assassination of Archduke F. Ferdinand and there were too many factors to simply conclude that "Germany started it"
Historians disagree on who really started WW1

"Causes of World War I"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I

EXCERPT"Consensus on the origins of the war remains elusive since historians disagree on key factors, and place differing emphasis on a variety of factors. This is compounded by changing historical arguments over time, particularly the delayed availability of classified historical archives. The deepest distinction among historians is between those who focus on the actions of Germany and Austria-Hungary as key and those who focus on a wider group of actors. Secondary fault lines exist between those who believe that Germany deliberately planned a European war, those who believe that the war was ultimately unplanned but still caused principally by Germany and Austria-Hungary taking risks, and those who believe that either all or some of the other powers, namely Russia, France, Serbia and Great Britain, played a more significant role in causing the war than has been traditionally suggested.."CONTINUED

While it is true that Germany did attack Poland, again, things were not so simple as Germany was provoked by the massacre of Germans in Poland:

"The 1939 Danzig Massacres of ethnic Germans which caused Hitler to invade Poland"
http://fr.soc.histoire.narkive.com/...-germans-which-caused-hitler-to-invade-poland

EXCERPT "The 1939 Danzig Massacres

In the months leading up to the German invasion the Polish Army and

independent Bolshevik units had been slaughtering German nationals in

the Danzig corridor. Mass killings of thousands of civilian ethnic

Germans (Volksdeutsche) by both civilian and Russian NDVK Jews, who

were confident that Poland would quickly defeat Germany. Many

apparently expected to take possession of German farms and businesses.

An estimated 58,000 German civilians lost their lives in the massacres

carried out prior to the 1939 invasion."CONTINUED

I think that it is perfectly OK to disagree on issues as long as it is done so with civility.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me.....how boring that would be.


Thanks